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Discussion Starter #1
I went out today and decided to try out my zeiss z-point which I bought last year for my vertical bow-ross 337 but never used. I am shooting an xcal phoenix with GT laser 2 probably getting around 290-300 in the speed deparment so I set it up at 10 yards app 2.5-2.75 inches high figuring it would be about 1-1.5 high at 20 yards dead one at 25 yards and app 2.5-2.75at around 30 yards. It took some getting use to since i missed the magnification that the vari-zone had to offer plus there was some wind to contend with t/o the day. I tried all distances and wasn't that happy with my results. Well the wind died down and I decided to take my time shooting and to my amazement the z point shot some pretty well. At first I was shooting individual dots then I decided why not concentrate on one black 2 inch dot. This was at 30 yards shooting off the railing on my back deck. Ok we all know what happened next two robin hoods.i should have stopped after the first one but i said it can't happen again but 2 groups later it did. I needed a reason to buy some more xcal arrows. I will experiment some more but I am pretty happy right now. Who knows an exocet could be in the works for next year as long as i get rid of my phoenix.:banghead:
 

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I doubt that you'll get the same group sizes

with a reflex sight that you can get with a scope with magnification shooting off a bench rest BUT for hunting shots, both off hand and resting your left elbow on your thigh especially in very low light conditions, the Z-Point is awesome and that's where I place my priorities. Try as I may, I cannot improve my accuracy with a scope with magnification over the Z-Point for stand up offhand shooting and as a matter of fact I shoot the reflex sight more accurately. At least that's what works for me. There is one limiting factor using the Z-Point and that is in some instances on a bright sunny day you may get some reflection off the rear lens but not enough to prevent you from taking the shot. For me that's a small price to pay for all the other great features of the Z-Point. In wooded low light conditions, as stated above, The Z-Point rocks. That tiny red dot beats the pants off scopes with all those horizontal thick lines IMO. The good thing is that we have plenty choices. I'm hoping for a Zeiss 3 dot with most of the Z-Point's features. That would be it for me. Until that happens I'll have to continue using existing Asian manufacured 3 dot sights for crossbows used to hunt open fields where extended range shots are the norm. A single dot just can't fill that bill.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i do feel that a vari-zone or lumi-zone scope would produce smaller groups off a bench cause of the magnification issue. But I have to say that i was l shocked that I got 2 robin hoods with the z point. I know what you mean about off hand shooting with the z point. it seemed that this little red dot is a natural for this type of shooting. Even though x-bows are still illegal in NYS for hunting I feel once they become legal this red dot will be good till about 30yards with my phoenix. If I opted for an exocet I figure it would give me about 5 yards more if I kept the same arrow weight. I will be honest if I did not already own a z point I doubt I could justify buying one for my x -bow.
 

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I use the Z-Point on some of my slower

crossbows for deer hunting and I always sight it in for 30 yards. 10 to 20 yards, I hold 3/4 low on the deer. 35 yards, I hold 3/4 high and 40 yards I rest the dot on top of the deer's shoulder. Works like a charm.

You mentioned not being able to justify buying one just for the crossbow :) Versatility is one of the great features of the Z-Point. Snaps on and off in a second. Bottom out the windage and elevation screws and back out 2.5 turns and you are back to factory centered. I always sighted mine in using only the vertical and horizontal panning adjustments of the HHA fixed distance bracket for my Bowtech Allegiance so if I took the Z-Point off to use on my turkey gun for example, I could always put it back on my bow later, go back to factory centered and very little adjustment would be needed to have it back dead on mounted back on my compound bow:) It's the best $450 I've ever spent on a sight.
 

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liaf -

The Burris Fast Fire, on my Stryker and the ATN Digital, on my Darton Fireforce have both produced the same results as what you got with your Z-point at the 23 to 25 yard range.
Overall, the Burris has a cleaner, sharper edged dot than the ATN, the ATN is still plenty usable.

Though both of these sights "require" batteries to work unlike the Zeiss, Z-point, and won't work under water (!?), it's (Burris) only water resistant (!), I normally won't be shooting in the rain.

One bad thing about the Burris...it's too short for the Stryker. Need to put my neck in an unnatural position...but it's still right on target. If I can't raise it up a bit...I may try one of the many scopes on the market for the Stryker.
If I can get a good scope on the Stryker...I may try the 65 yard shot...across my back yard, thru the back door, down the hallway to where my Block target resides at the end of the hall.
Wow...sounds a bit daunting when I write it out like this! I'll have to think about this a little more!

I'll try the Burris on the Recon when it gets here...

Shoot on.

Mike

P.s. - In no way am I putting down any other brand of sight or scope. Just putting out another point of view to achieve the same results.
 

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"same results" :)

Looking at it from that viewpoint, my little Chinese made red dots give me the same results in that I can kill adeer with it yet there are tons of features on the ZP that they absolutely don't give me anywhere close to the same results. I realize most folks with rifles, handguns, bows and even crossbows don't want to spend too much on a scope or sight. That's where I'm willing to spend some money. Nothing is more important in hunting and shooting than what I see and how dependable under ALL conditions the sight is.

My second choice is the ultra small Pride Fowler holo sight. I think it sells for about $350.00. As an example, I just purchased a Truglo adjustable spacing 4 dot crossbow sight. It stinks as compared ot the Pride Fowler. Yes it costs $70.00:ack2: You normally don't get what you dont pay for:D

Bottom line is for folks to use what they can be happy with. Good optics are not cheap................................neither are the better crossbows:)
 

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Brought back from June, 2008;-) Haven't changed my opinion a bit on these little sights:).

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