[Iron Duke]

I thought about that, but I'm OCD and that would drive me nuts.

Ran out of Blazers, and got about 75 Vanetec V-Maxx's in the fletching drawer. I'll use those up before I use something else. In all honesty I may just stick with them. They weigh 6 grains and are an inch longer than Blazers with more surface area.


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I had ... that issue with CE Aramid-KV arrows & Fusion vanes on my old Bowtech Strykeforce. I didn't notice any flight issues after trimming, but like you, I never felt comfortable with that situation ... ever ...lol

 

[SEW]

I remember back in the day, rifle to scope price ratio was 1:1, buy a $500 rifle, put a $500 scope on it. Buying a $1500 - $1800 crossbow and putting a $150 scope on it seems like blasphemy, although I believe the quality of lesser priced scopes have increased somewhat. I still believe a quality non-illuminated scope will beat a mediocre illuminated scope every time.

I recall the early years starting out when I use to shoot a recurve without a sight, and used the tip of the broad head at full draw to aim with. And now I sit on stand with a $1000 - $1500 setup to shoot basically the same distances.

Well, I have to agree with your quisical face. If time of flight is considered and if group size is considered some, then whatever range the same time of flight would give plus fudged up some for greater accuracy the range would be drastically different. If arrow speed is 3 times faster, if group size is 1/5 of stick bow size, then if 20 yds was an ethical range surely 60+ yds would be ethical now. If 25 yds had been ethical then 75+. If 30 yards then ......
Why limit ourselves to what appears to be well below the reasonable limit for our setups?

 

[tpcollins]

Sew - not sure what you meant. IF I have a scope, it will be an upper tier optic. Needing it is one thing, but if I'm going to look thru one it dang well better be clear as a bell.

My recent purchase was a new Leupy VX-2 3-9x40 with the CDS target turret for my "backup" muzzleloader that I haven't used in 5-6 years! But the price was right, I just couldn't pass it up.

 

[Adnick]

Have one high end Ziess, 2 Nightforce competition scope, and one Swarovski on rifles...

Put something with writing, black, red, blue and green works best, about 200 yards away at civil twilight and you'll be able to tell the difference.

Have to back that up to 75-100 yards for the xb30, it's a great scope for the price but nowhere near the quality of a real high end scope.

With that said, I do like the marked hold over points, in fact that's why I don't try installing a rifle score, I'd lose the holdovers....

 

[SEW]

T.P,
I was agreeing with what you stated concerning keeping our ranges down though our capabilities have increased times over.
Maybe a parallel is comparing a 50 cal RB muzzleloader with a 30-06, one of which is slightly less than 200 years old and the other is a little over 100 years old. The first has approximately 75 effective yards of range considering trajectory and the very rapid velocity/energy decay ( normally <500'lbs of energy remains beyond 75 yds) and rudimentary sites whereas the other has effectively 3-4+ times the range. Many 30-06 users have no qualms about considering 300yds as well within their effective range, and are correct in doing so. I see a lesser differential between a stick bow and a high performance xbow but not a lot less. A Scorpyd 175xx or R15 or others shooting well >400'/sec and able to shoot sub-1 1/2" 3-shot groups at 100 yards have appx 3 times the velocity and likely 5 times the accuracy of a stick bow many of us used. I'll admit, my Palmer White Tail Classic #52 shoots faster than what I used in the 50s and 60s, but I have upped my personal ethical range with it to at least 30 yards from 20ish yds back then. Point is, many xbow shooters keep their max range to much less than what math should indicate it could be if the same parameters were used: time of flight and accuracy. If 25 yds was ethical then, at least 75 should be now.

I was referencing "shooting basically the same distances".

 

[SEW]

Have one high end Ziess, 2 Nightforce competition scope, and one Swarovski on rifles...



With that said, I do like the marked hold over points, in fact that's why I don't try installing a rifle score, I'd lose the holdovers....

Put one of those scopes on an Optimizer and you have it all. Yes, I think for a fairly user friendly (too busy reticle) dedicated xbow scope the Hawke XB30 SR PRO is the best overall. But, it falls well short of a good rifle scope/ Optimizer. If I had to buy from scratch, I'd get an Optimizer/3-9 VXR for my moderately long range setups. I'd get an even higher end scope if I weren't married .

 

[jewalker7842]

T.P,
I was agreeing with what you stated concerning keeping our ranges down though our capabilities have increased times over.
Maybe a parallel is comparing a 50 cal RB muzzleloader with a 30-06, one of which is slightly less than 200 years old and the other is a little over 100 years old. The first has approximately 75 effective yards of range considering trajectory and the very rapid velocity/energy decay ( normally <500'lbs of energy remains beyond 75 yds) and rudimentary sites whereas the other has effectively 3-4+ times the range. Many 30-06 users have no qualms about considering 300yds as well within their effective range, and are correct in doing so. I see a lesser differential between a stick bow and a high performance xbow but not a lot less. A Scorpyd 175xx or R15 or others shooting well >400'/sec and able to shoot sub-1 1/2" 3-shot groups at 100 yards have appx 3 times the velocity and likely 5 times the accuracy of a stick bow many of us used. I'll admit, my Palmer White Tail Classic #52 shoots faster than what I used in the 50s and 60s, but I have upped my personal ethical range with it to at least 30 yards from 20ish yds back then. Point is, many xbow shooters keep their max range to much less than what math should indicate it could be if the same parameters were used: time of flight and accuracy. If 25 yds was ethical then, at least 75 should be now.

Very interesting perspective. I've never thought about it like that before. Good point!

 

[tpcollins]

I've always been intrigued with the Optimizer but not a fan of the side wheel - although I've never used one - but I probably have more of an issue with the height. But if I ever tried one, I might think of pairing it with a Swarovski 3-9 x 36 with th 4A reticle. I think you could see those heavy horizontal and the single bottom vertical at night in a closet with the door closed! I had it on my T/C Triumph B/C.

I sold when I got a great bargain on a 2-8 Zeiss Duralyt. I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice because I've never had to turn the Zeiss LED on yet. The clarity and FOV on that Swaro was incredible.

 

[SEW]

I sold when I got a great bargain on a 2-8 Zeiss Duralyt. I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice because I've never had to turn the Zeiss LED on yet. The clarity and FOV on that Swaro was incredible.

I expect if you put the Duralyt 2-8 (what I have also - 2) on an Optimizer and shot a lot out to 100 yards at the range, that "your" max ethical range might just creep up a "little".
I make bets with people by suspending ping pong balls in front of my 80-100 yard targets and using my 400 & 405 each with Optimizers/Duralyt 2-8s.
When hunting from a treestand, I set the power on "2" and the range on "30". I aim a little low for less than 30 and a little high for more than 30, but not over 40. AND higher yet for <15.
If the deer is >40 yards, rarely is there a problem with sneaking the trigger finger and thumb up to the dial. The Excal cheek peace places my chin just about perfectly.
I have 1 Optimizer with over 7,000 shots thru it. It's just as tight as the newer one.

 

[Moon]

I am Red Dot only right now

I have finally settled on these for my hunting crossbows. I have proved over and over to myself that I don't need magnification for crossbow hunting deer. Light weight, compact and parallax free works for me.

 

[tpcollins]

What distance is your zero and how far can you shoot with it using hold over?

 

[ramrod]

TP, with a 30yd zero that's 1.5-2" high at 20 and 3"-4" low at 40yds depending on the bow. A 175 or R15 would most likely be 35yd zero because of how flat they shoot. When I was shooting my Micro is a 25yd zero and I kept my shots 35 and in. I didn't shoot a deer over 20yds so all of that was for nothing

 

[tpcollins]

Thanks Ramrod, but I just realized I think Moon has what looks like an Optimizer or something similar with his Zeiss - duh.

 

[SEW]

Optimizer (likely shortened).

 

[Ron G.]

A week ago I bought a Barnett Vengeance. Sweet shooting bow. But as I started shooting it more it seemed that my groups got wider and not tighter. It got worse with every passing day. I knew I was not that bad of a shot. I've been shooting guns all my life, and my Jackal sure shot better than this.

I measured my axle to center, measured my ATA, checked the cam timing. Everything was spot on. I made sure that I was cocking it centered every time. It did not seem like it was the bow. I figured it was the factory arrows. I was wanting to pick up some GT Ballistics and fletch them with some Blazers anyway so I went out and grabbed some from BP, and refletched them. It didn't seem to help, if anything it seemed to make it worse. I thought I was losing my mind.

Something told me to check and scope. Everything looked fine and dandy. Nothing was moving and the scope didn't have anything lose or rattling in it. I didn't feel like it was the scope, BUT I was wanting to replace it anyway. Stock scope is junk like most are on crossbows that come straight from the manufacturer. Which is fine. It is meant to get you out in the woods that is all.

Academy was running a sale on the Nikon Bolt XR for $129. I decided to pick one up. I mounted the scope and stood back at 20 yards. I hit the target about 6" low, but dead center. Shot it again after adjustments, and got closer, one more adjustment and I was dead on. I went back to 30 yards and nailed it again. Shot my other two arrows and darn near all of them are touching.

I pulled the arrows, and did it again just to make sure that it was not a fluke. Same result.

Just goes to show you that having the right scope can really make or break a crossbow. It really makes me think that most of these crossbows that come from the factory shoot like crap due to the fact of a horrendous scope, and not necessary cam timing or out of spec bows.

Rule of thumb. If you haven't replaced that factory scope...do it! You will not be disappointed. This Nikon scope i can definitely vouch for. Clear optics and won't break the bank!

My Barnett scope was junk also. I got three replacement scopes from Barnett and they were all the same Chinese junk. ( Reticle was off center) Bought the Nikon bolt and works fine.

 

[bunnyrabbit]

A possibility that Barnett's scopes will not take the recoil of higher draw weight, faster shooting crossbows.
I found a similar occurrence when swapping a scope that worked 100% on a 30-30 to a 7mm. magnum. My 1st. shot was right on, the second shot was off. Emailing Cabela's at the time to inquire what was happening, they explained the 7mm had too much recoil and suggested a few scope brands that would work. I up graded and everything works as it should.
Barnett may not be realizing some things they are doing or parts they are using are subject to failure or are not strong enough. My Barnett scopes have not been used and were set a side after reading quite a bit of feed back. Both my Barnett Ghost 410's are equipped with rifle scopes. All the best.

 

[bowmanmt]

Very interesting perspective. I've never thought about it like that before. Good point!

TP, So far I like my HHA on the 390 solution, not high at all, matter of fact i hardly had to readjust height on the scope. But I do have a question, I also have a vxr 2x7, wish they had a 2x9. Sometimes these knuckle head outfitters put you up close and personal on these bear and hog setups, thats why I got the 2x7. But I hear you guys talking about a turret, so that take place of the HHA, how does it work?I bought mine direct from factory, parallax set at 25 yards

 

[Dieseldude]

Bowman, here's a pic of mine. A vice 3×9×40 cds scope. It sets on Burris Sig see rings. I cut a Hha tape apart and used them at the correct spots on the turret. I have spot on to 35 yards with 1 turn of the dial.
I did this cause the Hha was to high, cheek weld issues. This works better, I think.
This is on a vent 150.
I also have a 4×12 40 cds on my Orion 175.
I can get to 75 yrs with the 2 turns of the turret. It's spot on every time.

 

[bowmanmt]

Bowman, here's a pic of mine. A vice 3×9×40 cds scope. It sets on Burris Sig see rings. I cut a Hha tape apart and used them at the correct spots on the turret. I have spot on to 35 yards with 1 turn of the dial.
I did this cause the Hha was to high, cheek weld issues. This works better, I think.
This is on a vent 150.
I also have a 4×12 40 cds on my Orion 175.
I can get to 75 yrs with the 2 turns of the turret. It's spot on every time.
View attachment 61017

So then why buy a HHA? like I did. I could have had the factory set up the turret.. So with a single duplex firedot I can shoot 20, 30 40 50 60 with that turret.?

 

[Dieseldude]

So then why buy a HHA? like I did. I could have had the factory set up the turret.. So with a single duplex firedot I can shoot 20, 30 40 50 60 with that turret.?

Much of the how far is dependant on several factors. Most important is bow speed. Faster = farther. The leupolds cds are limited to 2 full turns of the turret.
But I'm ok with that. Cause the glass in them is great. The vxr compared to a xb 30.
Sorry the xb is not even close.