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A short EK Siege review ...

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26K views 70 replies 7 participants last post by  fly  
#1 ·
After thinking about it for months and happily postponing it because of supply shortness issues,
a few weeks ago I couldn't resist any longer. Not sure if anyone has experienced something like this ... :rolleyes:
Anyway, I think it's time to post a short review and my opinion.
I won't be repeating all the boring specs here, they are available from several websites.
And avoid pictures one can see there, rather focussing on some details.

As most of you know the successful Cobra R9/RX, the Siege 300 is the compound crossbow attempt along the same lines. The Cobra R9/Rx is a cross-over between crossbow and a crossbow pistol, being modular, easy to handle, and a bit more punch than common XB pistols.
As expected, the Siege is quite similar to the recurve R9/RX models.

Following a short list of common features:
- about the same size and shapesome data
- same polymer material and color
- same quick lock pin mechanism for prod and buttstock
- same lever cocking mechanism with sliding trigger box
- same anti-dryfire mechanism (spring-loaded hook in front of trigger box)
- same decocking ability and method (reverse of cocking)
- same arrow dimensions (.245" diameter shafts, nocks and inserts)
- similar or identical components (buttstock, grip, weaver rails)

And there are some differences, some not so obvious:
- the compound prod with adjustable daw weight
- about double the KE of the RX
- heavier (4kg instead of 2,7kg, e.g. 8,8lbs vs. 6lbs)
- visibly longer cocking lever
- trigger box cover & weaver rail is aluminium, not polymer
- needs a bigger case than the RX (not included, about 35€/$ instead of 25€/$)
- prod is held by two quick lock pins (incompatible to R9/RX)
- no "iron" sights
- comes with scope
- tri-fletched arrows, 15,5" long
- comes with a detachable bow quiver for 3 arrows
- comes with a fixed screw-on bipod


First impressions

Big and heavy.
Not really so much, but quite a bit more than expected.
It is much more front heavy than the RX - no wonder, the prod is mostly aluminium.
Product quality is similar to the RX. Some parts are made from aluminium now, which is definitely an improvement.
Like the trigger box and the weaver rail on top. This weaver rail is plastic on the RX, and can be bent down about1/10" by pressing on it with your finger.
This is solid and sturdy aluminium now, and much better equipped for scope.
Image


The buttstock is of better quality, it has an adjustable cheek rest, less rattling, and an integrated broadhead wrench.
It is still interchangeable with the RX buttstock. The attacheable front grip seems identical, but I don't use it anyway.

The cocking lever is longer now, and extends beyond the grip. I suspect this is required by the draw weight.
The lever ratio is about 2 (9" / 18"; length of pivot arm attached to trigger box vs. lever from pivot to center of handle).
Compared to the RX, the cocking lever latch is smaller, and harder to operate.

The RX takes me about 15 seconds to assemble (prod and buttstock).
Not so with the Siege. I need about a minute, partly because the parts still need to wear in a bit.
In contrast to the RX, two prod lock pins are located in the prod, instead the one in the main body.
Image


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Another difference is the cocking, which is significantly harder.
The draw cycle seems to be comparable to a speed bow (in the vertical compound world).
It reaches peak DW very quickly, and holds it most of the way through, until last inch of cocking lever movement.
The maximal cocking lever angle about 105° (when the trigger box hooks onto the string), i.e. beyond orthogonal, which seems ergonomically unfavourable.
Second reason is, I think, one usually uses the weak hand to operate the lever, as the strong hand holds the grip and operates the trigger.
Even the 130lbs RX variant is easy to cock, no problem a woman could do it.
But with the Siege, I guess the average woman would have to turn the draw weight down.
I mention women here because a video from EK (Poe Lang) I saw explicitly mentioned them as being part of the target audience.

The crossbow has a quite narrow profile in cocked state, I measured 7" ATA (10,5" uncocked).
What I dislike - because of it's shape (and the absent stirrup) you can't lay it on the ground without it resting on the cams.
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The fixed bipod might be ok for shooting from a bench or from the ground, but hardly for anything hunting.

The scope it is shipped with seems ok. It is not a proprietary addon, but actually a rifle scope.
The included instructions for sighting in clearly reference rifles and rifle distances.
It is illuminated with 5 reticles and 11 light level settings, 5 x red, 5 x blue, and off.
I didn't have a chance yet to shoot it beyond 8 yards, but in a 500€/$ package, you can't really expect top quality ...
Image

(Holding both the xbow and the camera straight and quiet at the same time is harder as I thought ...)

The name implies 300fps, and several sources suggest this speed was measured with 270gn arrows.
The package comes with 280gn arrows (see below), and I measured with those.
My results (with 281gn arrows) were 289 fps consistently.
This is, by the way, identical to results I have seen on a Russian YT channel.
I am not sure if the increased weight of the included arrows are a tell-tale.
This 10gn represent about 3,7% weight increase, or a 3,7% increase in gpp-ratio.

Anyway, this gives a KE of about 53ft-lbf, about twice that of the RX.
This is more than I get out of my vertical compounds (@27,5", 55lbs, ca. 45..47ft-lbf).
In contrast to the R9/RX, this is a serious weapon, with enough energy for smaller game, and not a toy to shoot at squirrels.
Still a bit away from the 90..120ft-lbf average of hunting crossbows, but this device was not primarily designed for the American hunting market, I think.

The included arrows of quite mediocre quality. The package states 5gn tolerance (280..285gn).
The included arrows, and an extra pack I had ordered did have this tolerances.
Strangely, the insert diameter is slightly less than the shaft diameter, there is a perceptible difference.
At one arrow, the insert became loose after one shot, and it turned freely.
While I couldn't pull it out with my hands, I repaired it anyway, i.e. removed the insert with heat and reglued it.
But actually, I don't care, I'm going to make the arrows myself.
As with the Cobra R9/RX, all components are standard archery stuff which every decent shop offers.
My first set (12 arrows) are from 6 Bearpaw Penthalon 350 shafts, weighting 292gn with 100gn point.

The draw weight can be turned down to 2 full turns of the limb screw, to 110lbs, i.e. about 5lbs per quarter turn.
The limb bolt assembly is basically the same as with modern vertical compounds.
I didn't try hat yet, my only action in that regard was to mark the reference limb bolt positions.
Image

(Limb screw assembly, top view)

As aside note, I watched a Siege review on a Russian channel some while ago.
I didn't undertand everything, but it seems there are legal issues in Russia.
To my understanding, above a draw weight / KE limit, a licence is required.
Perhaps someone can confirm that ?
Anyway, as a result, the Russian Cobra Siege is shipped with weaker limbs installed, the 150lbs limbs enclosed in package, but extra. And the presenter swapped the limbs in a few minutes on camera, without any bow press.
Meaning, limbs can easily be removed and replaced by turning the limb bolts out.
Strings and cables get slack after about 3 turns and can easily be replaced that way as well.
Which seems a practical feature - the less special tools one needs the better.


As a summary, I'm answering myself three questions.

First, was it what I expected ?
Yes and no. It is bigger and heavier than it appears in in pictures and videos, and I expected the cocking to be easier.
The build quality, performance and looks are fine, though.

Second, what is it good for ?
At least the same as the Cobra R9/RX, backyard plinking and target shooting.
The effective range is now extended to about 50..60 yards, no doubt one can shoot decent groups up to 50 yards.
The KE values would suggest it for hunting, and one can surely kill smaller deer species without trouble.
But one can get significantly lighter crossbows with much more punch. As said, hunting seems not a major target
market for this crossbow.

Would I recommend it ?
If one is fine with it's features and limitations, yes.
And Poe Lang being one of the two large manufacturers for lower and mid-level crossbows for years now,
I don't expect unusual quality issues.

As a final side note, I see this crossbow targeted mainly at the European market, including Eastern Europe and Russia.
I have seen quite a lot Russian YT videos featuring this crossbow, about as much as other languages combined.
Not sure if it is or will be available in North America, both because of supply chain and target market issues.

And not to mention, the slingshot channel guy is already about to design an Adder-like upgrade for this crossbow ...
 

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#3 ·
It looks almost like that one of the recurve version, just the grip shape is a bit different. And the length, as said.

That datasheet says 3,7kg (8lbs), but I weighted with the scope.
Scope and buttstock mounted, but no front grip, no bipod and no quiver installed.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the review! I just got mine today here in Canada, a buddy ordered it from the UK and gave it to me as a gift. He also bought himself one. I shot three bolts out of it this afternoon at around 20 yards, offhand, and they grouped nice and tight into the target but the scope was off. It's not a bad little bow and I can see how easy it is to maintain/restring which is a plus for me. Can't wait to get out and shoot mine.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the review! I just got mine today here in Canada, a buddy ordered it from the UK and gave it to me as a gift.
As mentioned, I guess there are no plans by EK / PoeLang to offer it in North America.
To compete at this market, a crossbow must shoot 500fps ... ;)
But yes, I like it as well.
Next thing I need to do is sighting in the scope, the 7 yards (indoor) I use currently are a bit short for that.
 
#10 ·
The mentioned video might be of interest in regard to other topics.
For instance, the guy shoots a 140gn bolt from this 150lbs crossbow - which I would never do with mine ...
That gives a gpp ratio below 1 (0.93), and a speed of 406 fps.

Interestingly, the KE has not dropped very much compared to the specified arrow weight of 280gn, indicating good efficiency.
I still would not do it with my crossbow, though.
 
#11 ·
AFAIK, without a permission Crossbows are limited to 43kg/~95lbs in russia.
 
#13 ·
An addendum to the review after some usage ...
Inspecting the arrows after some shooting, I noticed some strange marks.
At first, I thought the shafts are about to split.
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But those are "only" scrape marks.
Inspecting the shooting rail, there are no burrs or irregularities.
It seems it is designed that sharp.
Going over the edges with fine-grid sandpaper fixed the issues so far.

Second point is the trigger.
Compared to other xbows I have it is crisp, without noticeable creep, and has a light pull force.
Better than my Excalibur G340, and no comparison to some cheaper one's I have (e.g. the Jandao Chace Wind or XB52 a.k.a. Sniper 370).
Trying freestanding shots, I learned to appreciate that.
 
#14 ·
I took this xbow with me on my holiday (or work-) trip to my parents, to do some shooting over larger distances, and sighting in the scope at this ranges. Which turned out not to be just sunshine and roses ...

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The first problem was the scope.
Not sure if its the clamps or the weaver rail, but I had to shim the front clamp with about 1/10" to properly sight it in with the scope's adjustment knobs.
I tried 20m first (about 22 yards), but with the relatively low speed, each following reticle just covered 5m.
So I dialed it back to 15m. Increasing the distances, the reticles pretty well covered 5m increments, from 15m to 35m.

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Two arrows at 30m, on my makeshift target. Aiming point was the (small) black spot right and below the arrow to the right (besides the string).
The backstop is a foam archery target, the target itself about 2 inches of newspapers and magazines stacked up.
That holds up the arrows pretty well for some time, even the arrows shot from the 95 ft-lbf Excalibur penetrates just a quarter inch beyond it - on a fresh spot.

The accuracy was ok, but not really impressive.
One reason, I think, is in the design. When uncocked, the while sliding triggerbox (with the weaver rail and scope) has quite a bit of leeway, and rattles if you shake it. It is solid when cocked, but I think sub-inch precision over 50 yards are illusional. But for the design and the price, this was to be expected.

The second, larger issue were my selfmade arrows. Or, more precisely, my selfmade nocks.
At the first shots, I got groups sizes of 4...5" on 20 yards, which is a disaster.
And some of the arrows seemed to impact on funny angles.
I almost immediately suspected the nocks, so I sorted out the selfmade ones, and only shot the factory arrows.
Which improved the results visibly.
Here an image, comparing one of my nocks with an EK nock:

Image


I think it's obvious - my selfmade nocks are slightly conical, while the (black) EK nock is straight.
The Siege does not like such conical nocks, it seems.
I have ordered a few packs in the meantime (for a reasonable price), and replaced most of them.

I still wonder why and how some Youtubers claim a high accuracy of the Siege over 70 ... 100m (80...110 yard).
My scope does not ever cover this range. But as I vaguely remember, they held quite a bit over their actual target.

As a sidenote, there are several Russian YT videos about this crossbow, and relatively good one's.
It seems hunting with this xbow is legal in Russia, at least with a license, and this crossbow is relatively common there.
Only I would need to improve my Russian, to understand more of what they say ...
 
#17 ·
To be honest, I am quite content with the 15m ... 35m range my scope covers.
Surely I could do 70 to 100m shots with aiming tricks like a HHA speed dial.
Or just take my XB52, which covers that range directly.
 
#16 ·

They are readily available now in the USA and ship to Canada from Florida. Been shooting mine and really love the thing. Its a lot of fun and pretty accurate for what it is.

Gogun has been really good to work with, answer questions quickly, and ship accessories quickly.

I bought one of the bipod folding forend grips and can set the bow down now without leaning a cam on the ground.
 
#18 ·
im torn between getting the whipshot or the siege. tactically, the siege can only shoot 8 inch arrows. i have a horizone redback that can shoot those and 10,13,16 inch arrows, although one at a time. the siege with magazine would most likely stop any intruder,shooting 8 inch arrows at 400fps. and can shoot longer arrows one at a time if needed. and quicker than standard xbow---no cocking rope needed. and the siege nocks might be proprietary, but i can adjust my scope to make up some of the error an off the shelf might cause. im just 3d shooting as well as varmint shooting. the whipshot can shoot 6 15.5 inch arrows at 240fps. so obviously, id rather go after an intruder with the whipshot if necessary. much quicker firing rate even compared to the siege, and much longer arrows. but, the whipshot uses a much more propritary nock. which makes off the shelf arrows a no go. i dont have the $ to buy a whipshot and try arrows with standard nocks. theres an extra groove on whipshot nocks that help hold them in place in the magazine. and im not spending $40 for 6 arrows to shoot at mannequin heads. so, im about ready to buy a siege,soon. then i saw this. drool
ugh still, probably gonna go with the siege for plinking and backyard fun. pcp pumps are too damn expensive. hows your siege holding up btw?
.
 
#21 ·
... the siege with magazine would most likely stop any intruder,shooting 8 inch arrows at 400fps.
I guess you have that from another, quite optimistic slingshot channel video.
With a reasonable arrow weight of 280gn, I measured well below 300fps.
I think he shot short Cobra bolts with less than half of that weight to measure this speeds.
I would not want to torture mine that way.
"Stop an intruder" is more a function of KE and momentum, and I measured about 45 ft-lbf with my Siege. About as much as I get from my vertical compounds.

hows your siege holding up btw?
Well so far.
Albeit I don't shoot too often. Just don't have the time and easy opprotunity.

ugh still, probably gonna go with the siege for plinking and backyard fun.
I had come across an alternative - which I might have bought if I had not already bought a Siege.
A bow sold here (in Europe) and the label "X-Bow FMA Supersonic".
I think the name/brand differs in the US, but you might recognize it.
A bit cheaper, lighter,, with lighter arrows and similiar/higher speeds advertised.
If I remember correctly, this system uses the same .245" ID arrows and arrow components.
 
#19 · (Edited)
then again, after watching this video again, and depending on the cost, i just might switch to pcp. drool pump action arrow gun??? im almost sold, depending on final cost. im guessing...$800? maybe more. we will see. what do you think they will charge for this? in the meantime ill be getting a siege. i want the whipshot more but noone can tell me if standard knocks are useable. joerg told me the nocks have an extra groove to hold the arrows in place in the magazine. i thought that was what the magazine retention holder did, but apparently not. i didnt wanna question the big guy lol. but i might ask him anyways what happens if you use standard nocks in the whipshot. anyone out here own one?
 
#24 · (Edited)
over a year ago, i owned a venom drakon. had it shipped to the states. i loved it. i think it shot 13 inch,smaller diameter arrows, like the accmos ones you can get from aliexpress. but they said drakon on them. im used to shooting different size arrows out of my redback. up to 16 inches. i dont remember exactly if i was shooting a smaller 6.5 inch arrow, which is normally bad for an xbow. and watching joerg sprave shoot mini crossbow arrows out of the siege made me nervous for him lol. anyways, all i remember is both cams blowing up and sending shrapnel everywhere. the drakon i believe is the same design as the supersonic. but as fun as they are to plink with or small game hunt, my experience turned me off to that style. and ive read other reviews of cams exploding on ballista bat etc. Venom Crossbows Compound Pistol Crossbow from Venom btw, i still have the drakon press which can be used on the supersonic. if anyone in the buffalo ny area wants or needs it, ill give it to you.
 
#25 ·
Finally tried two shots with the short and lightweight Cobra RX (a.k.a. Cheapshot) arrows, with 155gn weight.
Not quite the Slingshot channel results of 400+fps, "only" 350 (351 and 352fps, respectively).
And nothing I think is worth pursuing.

Another interesting thing I learned - don't shoot short arrows with high-power crossbows, unless you're ok with messed-up fletchings.
I shot one into a Bulldog target, which disappeared almost up to the nock. I had to take a pair of pliers to get it out.
Which left the fletchings in a ugly wavy wess.
But since they were not torn or ripped off, I heated them gently of a flame, and voila - almost as new !
 
#28 ·
His arrows were supposedly 140gn, mine 155gn - not sure if that explains the difference.
AFAIK there are no stronger limbs for the Siege, only weaker one's (90 lb). Perhaps he has shortened string and cables.

My point is, 350fps does IMHO not justify breaking limb & string/cables over a short period of time.
I have to earn the money to buy new lims + strings.
He has money from YT and guys who like seeing him breaking things in front of a camera ...
 
#29 · (Edited)
over a year ago, i owned a venom drakon. had it shipped to the states.
...
I know it's quite late to respond ...
But AFAIK this Drakon is the same that is sold here (Europe) as Junxing Drakon. Here a link to an Austrian distributor: Junxing Drakon Compound Pistol Crossbow 100lbs/290fps » Bogentandler.at
I think this name is revealing - Junxing is a large Chinese archery manufacturer, making crossbows, vertical compounds, recurves, components and accessories.
I think the other look-alikes - Ballista Bat, Mini Stryker and FMA Supersonic - are all contract-manufactured by Junxing, and rebranded.
With minor modification, perhaps. I like the foldable stock available for the Ballista, haven't seen it here.

PS:
Let me add the Junxing Mamba to the list.
I think under this name it is sold in Russia. The linked video is froma Russian archery dealer:

... and ive read other reviews of cams exploding on ballista bat etc.
This tiny crossbows shoot lrelatively ightweight bolts. Some of them extremely light (110gn), no wonder the crossbow explodes eventually.
 
#31 ·
he JunXing Mamba comes with different limbs 120 and 150lbs afaik the 150lbs limbs do break more offen?
I would expect that to be true.
Most probably because of shooting the same insanely light bolts.
If you think of it, 150lbs is the average DW for "regular" compound crossbows.
Which of those tolerates a GPP ratio far below 1.0 ?!?
 
#32 · (Edited)
Still experimenting with this crossbow.
A wonderful platform for that, cheap, easy to cock, and still powerful enough to kill small game.

Here a "poor man's scope" I am currently trying.
The current setup is experimental, so I just fixed it with masking tape to the top rail.

Image


Basically just a piece of carbon arrow shaft, "narrowing" the POV to a small area.
The small diameter is not really a problem, there is enough "side picture" to observe the environment of the target.

Image


I'm going to experiment with this over the Christmas holidays, and report back.
For initial tests I just taped it flat into the grove of the top rail, causing a zero parallax.
The POI was thus about 1" high, equaling the elevation of the "scope" towards the flight rail.
For a fixed installation, I consider elevating the back end in a way to match the POV and POI at about 10 or 15 yards.
As a side note, the two-fletched bolts this crossbow uses are hardly accurate beyond 30 yd, so I don't take further distances into consideration.
The advantages of this sight - no batteries, no setup, and ease of use.
(Maybe I prefer such simple solutions because I almost always forget to turn off the red-dot sight ... :rolleyes: )

Another project are self-made fishing arrows for this crossbow.
Probably coming tomorrow...
 
#52 ·
Here a "poor man's scope" I am currently trying.
The current setup is experimental, so I just fixed it with masking tape to the top rail.
...
Basically just a piece of carbon arrow shaft, "narrowing" the POV to a small area.
Well, I tried that over the holidays, but it didn't work out too well.
The results at 10 meter were still ok, with a group not larger than 2" in diameter.

At 15 m, it was horrible.
Some bolts near the aiming points, but most scattered down and right, 8 to 10" away.
I didn't even try 20 m.

Cutting it off and using the "integrated" iron sight, the groups remained about the same size at 10, 15 and 20 m, giving 2 to 3".
The "iron sight" was on spot at 10 and 15 m, and about 3" low at 20 m.

In conclusion, I think the "scope" was too short to be useful.
The shorter the shaft ("pipe") section is, the larger parallax errors become, proportionally.
Especially since it sits quite low above the flight rail, and requires a somewhat awkward head position.

A shaft segment reaching from the back end all the way to the front ("bead" part of the iron sight) might work well, but this is too cumbersome, and gets in the way of loading the bolt.

Now that I tried I know ... :rolleyes:
 
#33 ·
I like that 'scope' idea. Pretty nifty.

I picked up one of these a few years ago. No batteries needed. Takes a bit to get used to, but works really well.
 
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#34 ·
The point of this sight is not to get 1" groups at 70 yards, you might have just a 50/50 chance to hit a car at this distance.
It is about hitting a squirrel at 15 yards, or a rabbit at 20 yards. And without long preparations and aiming.
 
#35 ·
Here another project I pursued recenty, self-made fishing arrows for this crossbow.
As usual, the base were discarded (vertical) archery shafts.

Image


The two on top are regular carbon shaft with .245" ID, and 350 spine, the two below are 1816 aluminium shafts.
Both are reinforced with a snug-fitting beechwood rod, glued in.
Weights are about 370 and 410 grain, respectively.

The retention element is made from beechwood as well, secured with a nail as pin, glued onto the shaft & soaked with low-viscosity epoxy.
The hole & pin goes into the shaft (and the internal beechwood reinforcement), but of course not through to the other side...

Image


The tips are modified "regular" field tips.
I have drilled a 2,5mm hole through (1/10"), glued in a nail with the head cut off, and bent to a barb.
The two leftmost are glued with epoxy, the other two with hot melt glue.

Image


Below are the slider elements to tie the fishing line in.
The two to the right are made from thin copper wire wound into an asymmetric '8' - shape, and soldered together.
The left ones' are made from thin hemp string wound into an '8' - shape again, and soaked with epoxy.
The fit loosely over the shaft, and easily slide up or down.
Not looking too pretty - they are still prototpyes.

And I plan to try them out soon in my parent's pond, on plastic bottles of course ...
Obviously not intended for large catfish or gemfish, but smaller one's of 5 lbs or less.
And they are relatively cheap and easy to make or replace.