Hi,
on sunday I was on the range and had a similar Training. I replaced my string and did the first shot on 50yards on the bench. One shot, one hit in the center. Sorry no real picture, only the documentation on my shooting app.

After this shot I started my freehand Training. Started on 80yards, then I increased up to 110yards. The following results were from 80yards.

1st round:
One more explanation; Since 3 weeks I started to use a bubble level, so I have to learn with, to concentrate on. The first round I didn´t, the last shot I corrected and hit the center.

2nd round:
This round more concentration on the bubble level and I hit the center one time, the "red" one.

The weather was quite good, sunny, wind I categorized on 4 Bft (0 no wind up to 12 hurricane). The wind was coming from right side. The wind categorization was made on 4 because small branches were moving (definition or 4 Bft).

 

That's some nice shooting Nurso. Particularly at 80 yards freehand!. What magnification are you using for your scope at that distance?

110 yards is a long shot for my scope I have now. I would have to do some scope adjustments to get 80 and 110 yards as I am maxed out at 70 on the bottom line. If I can a calm day this week I will have a go and post some pics. I have some larger 12 inch round target faces that I should be able to see ok with my 4x scope.

I will see if I can find a bubble level laying around and mount it on my bow. I'm sure it has to help avoiding windage errors from leaning the bow. I have them on my vertical bows and always use them.

 

I will see if I can find a bubble level laying around and mount it on my bow. I'm sure it has to help avoiding windage errors from leaning the bow. I have them on my vertical bows and always use them.

The bubble level for me is avoiding to cant the bow. Before I used it, very often my groups are right from the center, good groups, but not in the center. So I had read about this solution and it works.

 

Thanks, but not all the time the results are the same. I´m using a scope from a german dealer;
AIA FlexRange - FRS 101-12
12 means you have 12 different ranges, up to 130 yards, I have to convert the measures, basically from 10 meter up to 120 meters . It is a 3-9x42 with a 30mm tube.
Sigthing in the scope on 50 meters, 54 yards.

Shooting with a Deathstalker 400.

 

...i forgot.., on all distances I´m using the same magnification, number5 of nine....

 

Nice shooting, both of you!
I am going to the range this coming Saturday so hopefully can try the same thing.
Freehand, I'd say my limit is 50 yards tops right now.
Still not enough experience under my belt.
Plus have a new scope to get used to, which should help for shots longer than 50.
That is my goal, anyway, 50 to 100.
I will probably shoot off of one knee for shots > 50 to begin with.

 

I always practice one way,,,,, offhand! I test and sight-in on benchrest, and use the best benchrest equipment when I am testing to eliminate every little human error possible. This includes the use of windflags!! Trust me wind will cause more errors in POI than most will see by not using a level!

I have over 30 years experience in benchrest competition, and can assure most shooters they don't have a clue how detrimental even a 5mph wind can be to their shooting, even from a rest, but magnified offhand, and shooying offhand for practice with a couple flags will improve your success in the field. The more you practice this way, the more you will see improvement when it matters!

Variable wind cannot be seen in most cases without windicators of some kind, and guessing wind by how it is hitting you is of little good, and can be totally false to what it really is. check out this 5 25 and 40 yard variance and you can see, wind swirling from 3 different directions.

From one shot to the next, this can be giving two totally different POI using the same POA! Throw in this scenario and 3 different Points Of Impact using the same Point Of Aim would be tr results, the higher the wind speed, the wider the spread!

I also have owned some bows that shot to a different POI when shot offhand, than they did from a bag. One thing I have never had to deal with using the Excalibur bows, and the easiest of all for me to shoot offhand was my Suppressor, and Micro, mainly because of balance, but all my recurves have kept their zero when shot offhand very close! My Matrix 380 might shoot 1/2" low but out to 40 yards, the max I will shoot in the field offhand is still deadly accurate with or without a rest!

Since I use preset reticles and don't rely on twisting and adjusting on the go for every shot, that 1/2" is less from 20 to 40 yards, and beyond that not an issue as I do use something for a rest, from bracing my back or forearm to using a rail or shooting stick's which I usually use as I am mostly on the ground!

I just shot the Mad Max 2 days ago, for practice,,,, only 2 shots, only 30 yards, one with a broadhead, one with the 125 grain Viper Trick, 90% of my practice is with the heads I hunt with, and always the same set of arrows I currently built for that bow.

Pretty much same POI both shots, so again, my choice of fixed blades prove to hit where my field tips hit, and both withing 1/2" of where I was aiming. I said earlier, this does not matter past 40 yards in on live game, as beyond that.

I have confidence in my ability, but confidence is not 100% positive, and past 40 I will take the right shot if the right animal presents it, but the farther out I get, the better that rest would have to be, as well as the conditions, whish is everything from light to wind, and cover!

But anyone who doesn't practice off hand, will never be efficient offhand! You may not shoot satisfactory to your liking in the beginning, but in time, anyone can and will be a much better shot if they just stick to it, and concentrate on the spot you aim at, slowly squeeze, and concentrate on following that arrow all the way to the spot you are aiming at!

But please, give the wind indicators a try, and see if it doesn't explain a lot of the shots that aren't where you want them, or at least part of the reason they are as far off as they are. This to the more you use and concentrate on what they tell you, will help prepare you for conditions you take for granted in the field! remember, head and tail winds can lift and drop shots as well, and helical fletched shaft can lift as well or drop in cross wind as well as drift depending on if they are spinning into that wind or with that wind! It all will make those that ignore it, a better shot at the moment of truth, rest or not!

 

I love shooting without artificial rests. My elbow on my side or thigh while sitting works fine for me. Still hanging on to my old archery days. Never shot a deer while using a bench or rail rest.
Important!!! Know your limitations and stay within them.

 

Today I made a video comparing shooting freehand vs bench resting at a target from 50 yards. I think the gusty wind was blowing me about a little with the freehand shots so they were very average in comparison to usual but hey no excuses.

The conclusion was I probably wouldn't be hitting the kill zone freehand at 50 but no issues off the bench.

I did repeat the freehand shots in the afternoon when the wind calmed down and was able to get the three shots in a 4" box

Would be interesting if others to do a comparison at 50 yards freehand vs bench rest and report back. Even just with some pics would be great.

I will not shoot freehand at an animal at that distance. I am not good enough. Now a Hip Stick possibly and the odds go way up using my shooting stick. I have extreme confidence out to 50 yards on a fairly calm day.

 

Whenever possible, you should use a rest if you are shooting a rifle, slug, or crossbow. Freehand shooting should only be done if a rest is not available.

 

Amen!!

 

Against some misunderstanding, I am a target shooter, no hunting. I agreed with you who argue against long range shooting at animals. I will not do, anyway hunting with crossbows is forbidden in my country. Animals I´m only hunt with my camera, like you see on my avatar.
For me it is a challenge to shoot freehand on long ranges. Using a rest for me it´s only to sighten in my scope or proof my bow to see which mistakes I´m doing.

 

Against some misunderstanding, I am a target shooter, no hunting. I agreed with you who argue against long range shooting at animals. I will not do, anyway hunting with crossbows is forbidden in my country. Animals I´m only hunt with my camera, like you see on my avatar.
For me it is a challenge to shoot freehand on long ranges. Using a rest for me it´s only to sighten in my scope or proof my bow to see which mistakes I´m doing.

Totally understand. Enjoy, they are fun to shoot. For me I'd be missing that target if I forget which reticle to use. Yea, it happens between my 30 and 40 reticle sometimes.

 

I never practice free handed because I'll always take a prop on something, whatever I can find, when I take a shot at a deer. I'll use the rail on a ladder stand, my knee in a climber, the tree trunk itself. Anything I can find to steady me up. I feel I would just be wasting my time shooting freehanded when looking at my style of hunting. Besides, I already know I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn free handing at 50 plus yard distances.

 

There you go. We hunt the way we feel is best for us and shoot the way we are comfortable with. At 50 yards, a deer is dead if I decide to pull the trigger, shooting “off knee,” and that’s with my red dot sight. I’ll never judge others for how they shoot or what distances the limit themselves to. It’s an individual thing.

 

Wind sure is a big factor where I shoot. It's not uncommon to have a stiff 15mph wind with gusts of 20 - 40mph. partially around the change of seasons. That said when hunting on my property there are lots of gully's and sheltered areas that offer more favourable conditions that the game tents to like hanging out in to. Even fine days have a gentle valley breeze.

I do get the odd completely still day and I try and take advantage them and do more critical sighting in.

Hunting I would always try and give my self the best chance at a accurate shot. so yes lay down or prop on something but it's nice to know your limits in the worst case scenario. That being freehand shots in gusty conditions. To date I would say that's about 20 - 30 yards max.

Today I was trying 80 yards from the bench. Using the top of the where the crosshair changes thickness by luck this had me bang on for elevation at 80 yards . Over sveral shots elevation was consistent but windage was up to 4 inches left and right. I gave up as the wind was getting to spheritic. Had one arrow during a partially gusty period miss the target and had to get the metal detector out.

I will place a few flags over my range to give me more info to go on.

 

I agree with Catter. I test arrows and broadhead with a rest but I hunt freehand or with arm on knee in stand so that is how 90% of my practice takes place. Wind does affect accuracy. The best solution practice in wind.

 

I even sight in off hand:- ) because that’s how I shoot. The little inconsistencies resulting from off hand shooting are then consistent no matter if sighting in, practicing or hunting shots.

One of the biggest advantages for me is that I don’t have to contend with a tripod or rest of any kind. My knee and elbow are always with me

 

I love shooting without artificial rests. My elbow on my side or thigh while sitting works fine for me. Still hanging on to my old archery days. Never shot a deer while using a bench or rail rest.
Important!!! Know your limitations and stay within them.

I don't know of any vertical bow archery hunters that use rests.

 

I


It was interesting when I made the 50 yard video (freehand vs bench rest) I got my compound vertical bow out and shot 3 arrows at the target just for comparison. I was way more accurate than my crossbow freehand. As your very stable at full draw with trigger release locked into jaw and the bow being bushed back into your palm.

I was actually on par with my crossbow from the bench at 50 yards. Though I have had that same vertical bow for 15+ years and it's very dialled in with many thousands of shots through. I have more experience with it than my crossbow.

 

We all do it our way. No need to try to convince others ours is the best way...........even though it is for us:- )

 

I had calm conditions yesterday. The target was still sitting at 80 yards. I went out and shot 3 shots at it again freehand and 3 from the bench.

Results below.

First up was freehand. First shot had me pumped up as looking through the scope it looked like a perfect shot then the following two got progressively worse . Dropping in elevation and tracking left.
.

Then I shot 3 arrows from the bench. This time I got my 36x spotting scope out so I could track progress and the first two shots where fantastic then the 3rd shot was perfect for windage but way low. Not sure what happened there.

One thing I can say shooting 80 yards with a 360ish fps bow it feels like you could duck inside and make a coffee and still have time to here the impact down range. That said surprisingly still good penetration into the backstop at that distance.

 

Your results are not so bad as you say. Freehand only the last one I agree with you. Second round first two shots are really good.
About the speed. I think speed of my arrows are round about 380-390 fps. I like these two noises. One shot....one impact. It keeps my concentration on a high level.

 

Shot 6 arrows today, 20,30,40,50,60 and 70, all off knee while sitting. Using left hand only. Stroke affected right hand does not work well enough to use. Using my Ravin R26 that has been modified to slow it down to 354 FPS, all were in the dot as was this 70 yard shot.

 

Shot 6 arrows today, 20,30,40,50,60 and 70, all off knee while sitting. Using left hand only. Stroke affected right hand does not work well enough to use. Using my Ravin R26 that has been modified to slow it down to 354 FPS, all were in the dot as was this 70 yard shot. View attachment 176982

Really good shooting!

That's great shooting. I don't think I could hit anything if I had to use my non dominant hand. Must be nice having the bow dialled in tight every 10 yards all the way out to 70.

My stock scope has a 20 - 70 yard recital. Though even with the factory supplied arrows that were about 390gn with 100gn field point. if I sight in 20 yards elevation drop off from centre so I would need to hold over progressively more as I go out and its very noticeable at 70 yards. It's even more exacerbated now as I am using better arrows than what was shipped with the bow But that are 425gn total weight with 100gn fiend point so the recital lines are now way out of calibration.

I have been contemplating the hha optimizer dial jacking plate. So I can just use dial distance and use the centre crosshair. Though locally they are $400 AU. I could just get a scope with a speed dial. Was considering the Horton Hawke 2-7x32 as they are inexpensive.

Without a scope for this ranges or another device it ist very difficult to hit the center. My first bow also had only a reticle up to 70 yards. With the new scope up to 130 yards it is more easier.

400$ from my point of view (location) is a good price. In my region we have to pay 525$ for this optimizer.

 

That's great shooting. I don't think I could hit anything if I had to use my non dominant hand. Must be nice having the bow dialled in tight every 10 yards all the way out to 70.

My stock scope has a 20 - 70 yard recital. Though even with the factory supplied arrows that were about 390gn with 100gn field point. if I sight in 20 yards elevation drop off from centre so I would need to hold over progressively more as I go out and its very noticeable at 70 yards. It's even more exacerbated now as I am using better arrows than what was shipped with the bow But that are 425gn total weight with 100gn fiend point so the recital lines are now way out of calibration.

I have been contemplating the hha optimizer dial jacking plate. So I can just use dial distance and use the centre crosshair. Though locally they are $400 AU. I could just get a scope with a speed dial. Was considering the Horton Hawke 2-7x32 as they are inexpensive.

 

To me,free hand is shooting with no rest whatever. I've shot ninety per cent of my animals free hand out to 40 yards.
Prone with an elbow on my knee ,I can easily add 20 more yards.
If I have a chance,I'll use a rest but that seldom comes together for me.
Hopefully a pic of a decent bear in weeks to come,but that's with my Hoyt so free hand for sure....

 

I sure wish I could Bill, but them days are over, my how I miss my Hoyt,,,, best of luck on your bear!

 

For my as a hunter I use the bench to zero in the bow. I feel the bench shows how good a bow can shoot. After the bench I practice free hand because nine times out of ten that is what it will be for the shot on the animal. If I can use a knee or brace against the tree fine but that rarely happens. So, for the most part free hand just like I would be shooting at the live target.