Any suggestions are appreciated.

Would you consider fixed blade or hybrid. I shoot 1 1/2" cut Ramcats, 125 gr. I take the blades out and zero the scope. Set aside one complete head to check zero before you go into the woods and check zero when you come out. I shoot for urban herd control, so I aim to break bones on the way in to the heart or on an exit pass through.

 

Jake, Thanks for the response. While I prefer mechanical's, I'm not against trying anything that would give me the consistency of filed points (or close to it), will make a clean kill that can be tracked easily, and doesn't break the bank to try and test them. What exact model Ramcat are you suggesting for a Saga 370? Thanks for the advice. BTW so far I have used all 100 grain tips as that's what the provided bolts from Bear have used.

 

What exact model Ramcat are you suggesting for a Saga 370?

Don't know the exact model#, but it's the 125 gr x 1 1/2" cut with the scooped out front end (supposed to be some Hydro-something or other). OOPS, I see you are already moving ahead. I don't know the difference in the "X" model, but it may be a designation for Xbows. I started using ramcats mid-season two years ago when I lost a buck using some fancy curved Toxic broadheads; shoulder hit, no broken bones, no pass through, no blood. As I posted above, I re-zeroed my scope without blades comparing with field tips only to be sure I stayed on the target. I had already numbered and grouped my arrows, so I took the best arrow of the best group and put a complete head on it and re-shot it. Tweaked the scope a few clicks, replaced the test head with a fresh one and went hunting. Rechecked the scope with the test head after the hunt. System has put nine down without a loss, two of them with broken legs. I don't remember how much I tweaked the scope with the blades in place, but in the woods it didn't seem to matter. Be sure to remember that those blade screws are LEFT-HANDED screws. Be sure to post a picture of your next success.

 

Jake, I ordered a set of the 100gr hydroshocks to try out. At your suggestion I did some research and I did find many comments about them flying similar to field points. I have a couple questions that i was wondering if you might have an answer for. What is the difference between the hydroshock and hydroshock-x fro crossbows? I can see no difference whatsoever and I found the regular hydroshoks cheaper than the hydroshock-x. Next...I was reading how you removed the blades and used as field points to practice and sight in. Then I think you shot one into a broadhead target with the blades to verify zero? My question is how can removing/adding the blades not have an effect on point of impact??? I would find it hard to believe that the 2 would fly the same? Can you expand on any experience you have with the testing you have done? The idea of practicing without the blades is great as you wouldn't destroy the expensive blades, but I would be leary to assume it would hit exactly the same once the blades are attached? Thanks so much!!

 

Take a look at the Sevr 2.1 titanium broadhead. I tried them, like them and will be using them this season.

 

Same here.

 

I dought you have a broadhead problem.....more likely your arrows or un indexed arrows..... Spend some money and get a few Black Eagle Executioners with 110 gr inserts SSA has em for sale.

How much do your factory arrows weigh?

 

Exactly Wapster!

The key give away factor was in his opening descriptive when he states that he's shooting the factory 20" arrows that came with his set up. We know for a fact there isn't a manufacturer in the business that supplies "spine matched or weight balanced" arrows with their equipment.

The inconsistency being outlined by DuckboyA5 is classical and sympathetic of unmatched arrows. I'd recommend going back to the beginning and starting with the basics of ordering a set of spine matched, weight balanced arrows from South Shore Archery. Then begin the retesting process.

Jon

 

Very interesting post Duckboya5, thanks for sharing it with us. I'm leaning towards Wapster's comment on it possibly being the arrows. I shoot the same broadheads, but have not had a single issue with inconsistent accuracy that you have had.
Let us know how the hydroshocks work out and if you still have the same issue.

 

It's interesting to read testing results and see how different an experience can be from one archer to another.

My experience is very different. I've shot this same XBow rated Grime Reaper for 3 years. It performs in my back yard and in the field. I've killed dozens of animals, small and large, two at once in one case and have had zero issues with them.

- The practice tip flies like a field point as does this broadhead. POA and POI are the same. I've bench tested this with the following bows: Storm 370, Vortec 340, Sniper 370 and Spectre 375. The last two are xbows made by the same company that makes your Bear Saga 370. The Saga and the Spectre are almost identical twins.

- The 100 gn field tip, 100 gn practice head and 100 gn Xbow rated Razortip broadhead (#1973) fly exactly the same. The broadheads are "one shot" design as most mechanicals are so any subsequent shooting MAY show variation of flight as the blades are prone to open in flight. Banding these heads will solve that if you want to continue practicing with this mechanical broadhead.

- These heads like many mechanical heads are not intended to be shot repeatedly. The base collar on these GR heads and the blades suffer from additional impact and will not perform as new. Banding will solve that as noted above.

- Their accuracy when new is excellent to 60 yards. I have also shot the 100 gn 2" diameter 3 blade WTS (#1824) and now shoot the 125 gn 4 blade Extreme (#1645). My field points, their practice head and broadhead shoot as advertised. I've tested to 40 yards with a 410 fps and 440 fps xbow.

- If wind drag from closed blade profile mechanical was an issue, these 400+ fps bows and a 4 blade broadhead would surely surface that. I also don't think a company would sell more than a handful of broadheads if everyone experienced the kind of performance you've reported.

Like several other posters here, I can only conclude there is more at play impacting your testing.

 

Thanks for all the responses guys. It's amazing the amount of knowledge I'm gaining here and I appreciate everyone's help. So to answer everyone's questions and comment on some peoples points.... My bear K20 bolts specs say 365gr with the 100gr field point installed. I've weighed several of them and they usually run about 5 grains more than that at 370gr. I do not know what unindexed bolts mean so I'm not sure what mine are. But if it means when I screw in the broadhead do they all sit in the exact same orientation....no they do not.

TX_RDX guy. Your comments really resonate with me. When I purchased these items that's what I thought would would happen. I thought I would sight in with field points which has been very accurate with my bow then switch to the practice tip and it would hit the same then switch to the actual broadhead and it would hit the same. That was not my experience. My practice tip for certain hits different than my field points. I can re-zero my scope to my practice point and i could maybe trust switching to a broadhead without testing.....but I'm leary. The biggest thing I have found and you are 100% right is with each shot of the real broadhead the accuracy degrades...or at lease changes to a different impact area. I have been banding them to diminish this effect and try and maintain consistency, but after a few shots it's very inconsistent. I have taken the heads apart between shots and everything you have said is accurate. All the parts get damaged quickly and the head even starts to index differently after a few shots. But how can one realistically keep testing a fresh broadhead each shot at 34 bucks a 3 pack??? I think I'm going to just re-zero to the practice tip and try a shot on a hog with a fresh broadhead. In all honesty I think some of the inconsistency is coming from subsequent shots...but again this gets expensive. For certain my field points and practice tip hit different as noted by side by side shooting. Perhaps it's just this broadhead and K20 bolt combination that doesnt work??? I will say, besides accuracy...the blades works wonderful

I have also purchased last night a few different heads to try that seem t have good accuracy reviews. I have on the way Rocky mountain warheads in both the X (orange) and the traditional black, NAP slingblade crossbow, and some Ramcats that jake recommended that look impressive. I actually did search for sevr 2.1 last night but had no luck in locating anything in a reasonable price range...but I will do some more looking. I don't mind paying more for a good broadhead, but testing can get very expensive especially with broadheads that are beat up after a couple shots and provide no consistency.

My next step since we are quickly approaching bow season here might be to zero my scope to the practice tip, shoot one fresh broadhead, then hope for the best when I get my next shot. I think I'm o.k. within 30 yards which should where anything presents itself. Thanks everyone for all the help!!

 

Thanks for all the responses guys. It's amazing the amount of knowledge I'm gaining here and I appreciate everyone's help. So to answer everyone's questions and comment on some peoples points.... My bear K20 bolts specs say 365gr with the 100gr field point installed. I've weighed several of them and they usually run about 5 grains more than that at 370gr. I do not know what unindexed bolts mean so I'm not sure what mine are. But if it means when I screw in the broadhead do they all sit in the exact same orientation....no they do not.

TX_RDX guy. Your comments really resonate with me. When I purchased these items that's what I thought would would happen. I thought I would sight in with field points which has been very accurate with my bow then switch to the practice tip and it would hit the same then switch to the actual broadhead and it would hit the same. That was not my experience. My practice tip for certain hits different than my field points. I can re-zero my scope to my practice point and i could maybe trust switching to a broadhead without testing.....but I'm leary. The biggest thing I have found and you are 100% right is with each shot of the real broadhead the accuracy degrades...or at lease changes to a different impact area. I have been banding them to diminish this effect and try and maintain consistency, but after a few shots it's very inconsistent. I have taken the heads apart between shots and everything you have said is accurate. All the parts get damaged quickly and the head even starts to index differently after a few shots. But how can one realistically keep testing a fresh broadhead each shot at 34 bucks a 3 pack??? I think I'm going to just re-zero to the practice tip and try a shot on a hog with a fresh broadhead. In all honesty I think some of the inconsistency is coming from subsequent shots...but again this gets expensive. For certain my field points and practice tip hit different as noted by side by side shooting. Perhaps it's just this broadhead and K20 bolt combination that doesnt work??? I will say, besides accuracy...the blades works wonderful

I have also purchased last night a few different heads to try that seem t have good accuracy reviews. I have on the way Rocky mountain warheads in both the X (orange) and the traditional black, NAP slingblade crossbow, and some Ramcats that jake recommended that look impressive. I actually did search for sevr 2.1 last night but had no luck in locating anything in a reasonable price range...but I will do some more looking. I don't mind paying more for a good broadhead, but testing can get very expensive especially with broadheads that are beat up after a couple shots and provide no consistency.

My next step since we are quickly approaching bow season here might be to zero my scope to the practice tip, shoot one fresh broadhead, then hope for the best when I get my next shot. I think I'm o.k. within 30 yards which should where anything presents itself. Thanks everyone for all the help!!

Sevr broadheads are only available from Sevr. However, they are sold per each so you can purchase any number that you want.

 

Listen to Wasper. I shoot the 125 grain razor tip with 1/2" spots at 60 yards with Tapps from Tapp Nation.

 

thorns.... https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5743545

 

That is my go to broadheads. They definitely fly like a field point. Blades concealed totally inside the head plus you get a 2.2 cut.

 

With your grim reapers if you think the practice tip is flying different than the actual broadhead you can always jb weld a broadhead closed. You'll never be able to use it again but at least you'll have a practice broadhead the same as your hunting broadheads.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

I second Wapsters comments. I have SSA make up a dozen Spynal Tapp arrows. The are spline and weight matched. Then I shoot all of them and Mark results. Being they are matched I don't have any bad fliers. Then I spin test them with field point. I zero everything in and then take one hunting broadheads and one arrow and sight in. Right now I am using SWAT X how magnums with my Scorpyd crossbow. I have had to make minor adjustments with broadheads until I am spot on 20, 40 and 60. I put brand new bands on every shot. I always waste one broadheads each season to ensure I am spot on. SWAT broadheads have been very good for me. After shooting I spin test all arrows going into my quiver.

 

I just got done sighting in with a new scope. Once I was zeroed I tried the Grim Reaper 100 gr practice head and it hit same as the field points. I then shot a new Grim Reaper broad head and it was spot on. This was with a Horton Storm and Bees from Jerry.

 

I just tested the Xbow 1.5" pro series with Tapps . The practice head shot within .5" of my field points out to 50 and held a consistent POI. This out of a Mission 360.

 

Duck... I haven't seen anyone address your comment about indexing. Some of the 3-4K post oldtimers must be asleep or in the field. This is my take on indexing. Tubular carbon fiber arrows are not perfectly symmetrical with respect to their resistance to bending. The radial position of maximum stiffness is known as the spine. The dynamic behavior of arrows in flight is most consistent when the cock vane is aligned in the plane of the spine. Arrow builders use a spine tester to find the position of the spinal plane and mark it for positioning the cock vane. This is called indexing. Highest quality arrows will also be matched according to the stiffness of the spine. Hope this helps.

 

WOW What a difference a second day of testing makes!!! Guys I am almost embarrassed to come on here and tell you how differently everything went yesterday at home after my initial post. I'll just throw myself on the spear and chalk my initial posts up as newbie stupidity. So yesterday I came home an said let's just forget about where all my bolt/field points are shooting and focus just on the grim reapers I've purchased thus far. I set up my rest setup that I described earlier and moved the bag target and Reinhart target to 30 yards. Why 30 yards???? Because that's the exact distance I will have an opportunity to shoot at some feral hogs (more on that later) and I know I can go back and re-zero at 20 and work out the longer ranges before deer season starts. So I shot my field point bolt at the bag target to confirm windage which was good and it was a little high as expected but I knew this because it's dead on at 34 yards reticle # 2. I then switched to the G.R. practice head and shot the Reinhart and it was a few inches off as I knew it would be. I then let all that previous field point work go out the window and zeroed the practice head at 30 yards on the Reinhart foam block. I repeated the shots a few times and saw that I was getting outstanding consistency at 30 yards from the practice head. I then switched to a fresher grim reaper blade that had been fired only twice and I banded it midway up the blades with a 3/16 6.5oz strength dental band and fired at the target. Well....low and behold it hit about 3/4" to the right of the practice head but the elevation was good. I then re banded and repeated the exact same shot and it hit the same hole....3/4" to right of practice head. I was amazed, as this was far different than my other round of testing. So next, I changed out to a fresh unfired blade and banded it for the 1st shot the same way i banded the used blade...mid way up. The bolt hit only about 1/2" to the left of dead center! I re banded and repeated and the bolt essentially hit the exact same spot! Then the very last thing I did was switch back to a field point and fired a couple shots a the bag target at the exact same distance and all 3 shots were 1 1/2" to the right and 1 1 1/4" high of point of aim. So my field points are not an exact match and my broadheads will need to be re-zeroed for my set up.....but a bit closer than yesterday. I then re-banded my newest twice fired broadhead and left it on the same bolt for later use. So I stopped at that point for reasons I'm about to explain. Later on that evening I was able to cleanly take a 60-70lb feral hog at the exact same 30 yards I zeroed with no issues. It was an angled shot that entered a little ways behind the shoulder....lung shot and exited the other side further back with a little bit of intestines showing on the exit hole. I assume this was a single lung hit??? But maybe double???? I don't know. There was not a massive blood trail, but it was enough to follow with a little diligence and he only went about 20-25 yards and was laying in some brush. What a difference a day makes!!!!! I ended this day on a high note for certain!!! I was so excited about my 1st success with this crossbow and it gets me excited for deer season.

So here are some observations from my testing that I feel more confident about listing now.

1. I cannot expect, (at least with these broadheads) for everything to hit in the exact same spot as my field points. I will need to re-zero with my practice head for hunting season. The practice head hits both lower and to the side of the field points.

2. I have far more trust now in the practice head / broadhead consistency, and while it might be off 1/2" at 30 yards this is acceptable for the ranges I expect to kill game with. Actually 20 yards for deer will be more likely in early bow season.

3. Banding the blades ABSOLUTELY helps with accuracy on the grim reaper blades AND accuracy degrades with multiple shots. I feel a couple of banded test shots and an inspection after practice point use is fine as I killed my hog with the blade that had a couple of test shots on it mentioned earlier.

4. Grim reaper blades absolutely deploy as advertised at least on this particular pass through shot. Bolt was on ground, blood full length, with blades completely opened.

5. The folks on crossbow nation are awesome and are a wealth of information!!

So now that this has been accomplished, my next plan is to re-zero reticle 1 for 20 yards and work out the distances for the next 3 reticles and that will get me through bow season for deer hunting. I guess in the summer time when shooting field points I can just re-zero again for practice. Thanks so much to everyone who passed on ideas and advice to me!!!

 

Duck... congrats on the hog and first time out too!!

 

Congrats on the hog

 

Congrats on the hog. Glad we don’t have those up by me but someday I’m gonna go shoot some somewhere.

 

We didn't have any either then one day this showed up!

 

We didn't have any either then one day this showed up!

Hey Gwn... back in the day when U. of Arkansas was in the Southwest Conference, they were both called Razorbacks.

 

What year was that? And do you have hogs everywhere now?

 

What year was that? And do you have hogs everywhere now?[/QUOTE
2017 was the year. The Game and Fish came in and started doing some heavy trapping and I haven't had any on my camera in over a year now. The one I killed came out by itself in the day time and was the only one I have seen while hunting. In 2017 and early 2018 I had some pics on camera of a sow and a bunch of little ones.

 

2017 was the year. The Game and Fish came in and started doing some heavy trapping and I haven't had any on my camera in over a year now. The one I killed came out by itself in the day time and was the only one I have seen while hunting. In 2017 and early 2018 I had some pics on camera of a sow and a bunch of little ones.

 

These high speeds open a whole big can of worms when it comes to the hundreds of different shspes..sizes ..and. Style heads. Not to mention different launches and power stokes of xbows...if. At first you don't succeed spend more cash and experiment with other heads yes it's a pita but it's part of the high power high speed crossbow game..

 

So this post will be about some characteristics of the grim reaper blades I'm testing and some disappointments I've experienced with accuracy. I'm also open to any suggestions from folks using this broadhead on getting better accuracy. 1st the bow. 2019 Bear saga 370. I'm shooting the factory 20" k20 bolts with 100 grain field tips. I am using the 100 grain razor tip 3 blade Model #1973. For this testing, all shots were done at 30 yards from a caldwell lead sled and shots all felt great and rock solid into a reinhart 18-1 foam block. I used the same bolt for all testing to ensure consistency. At 30 yards using the #2 reticle and the 100 grain field tip my bolt hits about 1 1/2 high from P.O.A. ( I knew this as its dead on at 34 yards) I then shot the practice tip that comes with the 3 pack of broadheads and it hit about 2-3 inches low and to the left of P.O.A.. I then shot a couple of the broadheads and I had very mixed results. here are some things I've learned about these grim reapers.

1. The practice head does not fly like a field point in the sense that you can shoot the same P.O.A. as your field points. Mine was off considerably. I will need to do extensive re-zeroing with my scope to sight in with the practice tip.

2. The actual broadhead...in my experience...does not even hit like the practice head. Mine were hitting quite a few inches away from the practice tip. So much so that I would be concerned at longer distances. Maybe not so much at shorter distances.

3. Firing the actual broadhead will get you a different result each time due to wear and tear on the broadhead. I discovered that after each shot the blades were looser, the spring more compressed, the inner rings more worn and bent.

4. I discovered if you band the broadhead closed with dental bands you get more consistency on that particular broadhead because it keeps the loose blades the same for every shot. Also I tested opening function by shooting through several layers of cardboard with a 6" gap behind it. then impacting my foam block to stop the bolt. By reading the backside of the cardboard I had a perfect 3 blade pattern everytime showing they opened perfectly even when banded.

5. I DID NOT in my opinion have reliable accuracy between each broadhead even when both were banded. They actually impacted on opposite sides of my aiming points and had very little consistency. This sucks because I really like the blades and want to use them.

6. I did get repeatable accuracy from the practice tip as far as it impacting in the same place. I did not get the same results with the actual broadheads.

7. The broadheads did start to change impact every time I shot it due to the wear and tear and looseness on the blades, springs, rings, etc... Like I said, banding them with dental bands did help this.

8. I have no idea how to get repeatable accuracy from these broadheads. I dont completely trust the impact of the broadhead as compared to the practice head. I do not trust these on multiple shots. I doubt with the cost of rebuilding it's even worth it as a new 3 pack is nearly the same price.

9. It seems that when the broadheads are screwed into the bolt the position of the blades is different between different heads which seems to change the effect of wind drag which seems to cause different points of impact between different blades.

10. It's difficult to accurately test the actual brodheads because it would not be cost effective to continuously shoot a new broadhead each time and the broadhead starts to sustain damage with multiple shots. Also the practice tip cannot be trusted as reliable comparison to an actual broadhead....in my experience.

So to recap, I really like these but I am not super impressed with accuracy..at least from my rig. Does anyone have any suggestions on a broadhead that will truly impact like a fieldpoint? I understand it may not hit in the same location as my fieldpoint and the bow would need to be re-zeroed. But I'd like to be able to shoot the practice head regularly and trust the broadhead will hit the same without continuously shooting and damaging actual broadheads which gets expensive. In my limited testing, I think the more a mechanical broadheads has pieces of the blades hanging out past shaft diameter, the more it is affected by wind drag. I also think the broadheads being in different rotations (like looking at the face of a clock) makes them hit differently than other broadheads of the same pack. I was thinking the Thorn head might be the answer, but then I came across a few reviews that said the blades did not dep

So this post will be about some characteristics of the grim reaper blades I'm testing and some disappointments I've experienced with accuracy. I'm also open to any suggestions from folks using this broadhead on getting better accuracy. 1st the bow. 2019 Bear saga 370. I'm shooting the factory 20" k20 bolts with 100 grain field tips. I am using the 100 grain razor tip 3 blade Model #1973. For this testing, all shots were done at 30 yards from a caldwell lead sled and shots all felt great and rock solid into a reinhart 18-1 foam block. I used the same bolt for all testing to ensure consistency. At 30 yards using the #2 reticle and the 100 grain field tip my bolt hits about 1 1/2 high from P.O.A. ( I knew this as its dead on at 34 yards) I then shot the practice tip that comes with the 3 pack of broadheads and it hit about 2-3 inches low and to the left of P.O.A.. I then shot a couple of the broadheads and I had very mixed results. here are some things I've learned about these grim reapers.

1. The practice head does not fly like a field point in the sense that you can shoot the same P.O.A. as your field points. Mine was off considerably. I will need to do extensive re-zeroing with my scope to sight in with the practice tip.

2. The actual broadhead...in my experience...does not even hit like the practice head. Mine were hitting quite a few inches away from the practice tip. So much so that I would be concerned at longer distances. Maybe not so much at shorter distances.

3. Firing the actual broadhead will get you a different result each time due to wear and tear on the broadhead. I discovered that after each shot the blades were looser, the spring more compressed, the inner rings more worn and bent.

4. I discovered if you band the broadhead closed with dental bands you get more consistency on that particular broadhead because it keeps the loose blades the same for every shot. Also I tested opening function by shooting through several layers of cardboard with a 6" gap behind it. then impacting my foam block to stop the bolt. By reading the backside of the cardboard I had a perfect 3 blade pattern everytime showing they opened perfectly even when banded.

5. I DID NOT in my opinion have reliable accuracy between each broadhead even when both were banded. They actually impacted on opposite sides of my aiming points and had very little consistency. This sucks because I really like the blades and want to use them.

6. I did get repeatable accuracy from the practice tip as far as it impacting in the same place. I did not get the same results with the actual broadheads.

7. The broadheads did start to change impact every time I shot it due to the wear and tear and looseness on the blades, springs, rings, etc... Like I said, banding them with dental bands did help this.

8. I have no idea how to get repeatable accuracy from these broadheads. I dont completely trust the impact of the broadhead as compared to the practice head. I do not trust these on multiple shots. I doubt with the cost of rebuilding it's even worth it as a new 3 pack is nearly the same price.

9. It seems that when the broadheads are screwed into the bolt the position of the blades is different between different heads which seems to change the effect of wind drag which seems to cause different points of impact between different blades.

10. It's difficult to accurately test the actual brodheads because it would not be cost effective to continuously shoot a new broadhead each time and the broadhead starts to sustain damage with multiple shots. Also the practice tip cannot be trusted as reliable comparison to an actual broadhead....in my experience.

So to recap, I really like these but I am not super impressed with accuracy..at least from my rig. Does anyone have any suggestions on a broadhead that will truly impact like a fieldpoint? I understand it may not hit in the same location as my fieldpoint and the bow would need to be re-zeroed. But I'd like to be able to shoot the practice head regularly and trust the broadhead will hit the same without continuously shooting and damaging actual broadheads which gets expensive. In my limited testing, I think the more a mechanical broadheads has pieces of the blades hanging out past shaft diameter, the more it is affected by wind drag. I also think the broadheads being in different rotations (like looking at the face of a clock) makes them hit differently than other broadheads of the same pack. I was thinking the Thorn head might be the answer, but then I came across a few reviews that said the blades did not deploy on double lung shots. It's hard to keep testing multiple blades due to expense. i thought of trying some rage braodheads to see if they would be a bit more consistent from my bow which shoots field points super accurate. Any suggestions are appreciated.

loy on double lung shots. It's hard to keep testing multiple blades due to expense. i thought of trying some rage braodheads to see if they would be a bit more consistent from my bow which shoots field points super accurate. Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

I personally like the Thorns because you can with the proper target shoot the actual broad head your going to hunt with that in my opinion is a great benefit and have switched them.