[Ironminer]

Beautiful Work! Man I missed you! This is going to be marvelous!

 

[Ironminer]

Good Morning,
I want to start out by saying the following is not a review per say on the bow but rather a controlled test regarding the "cable" issue presented.

I conducted two tests: Agree or Disagree with my findings.
Test One: Straight out of the box, no lubrication applied to either string or cables. Noting that the photo evidence of prior bows I have looked at indicate no presence of lubrication. IMO
Shot the bow 15 times. Pressed the bow due to obvious visual premature wear on the cable(s). The wear was proportional to each cable. I removed and photographed one of the four cables noting the abrasion on the helical wrap area of the cable along with partial separation at one point of the cable. The serving surface was fuzzy with the outside surface showing high abrasion.
Again, this was after 15 shots, dead dry cables out of the box. I then went through my normal pre-lubing of a new set of string and cables, rubbing Trident into the serving of both S&C allowing to penetrate for 15 minutes. I also applied Trident to the helical of the cam along with the through hole for the cables and the groove for the string. I "over lubricated" so the test went from one extreme to the other, lube, no lube. BTW the string did not show any wear in comparison to the cables during this test.
View attachment 266796
View attachment 266797

I installed the new S&C set, verified timing and began shooting the bow for test 2.
Before proceeding a few points of interest: 1- I tested the factory out of the box S&C with a special wipe that changes color in the presence of any surface contaminant: silicone, petroleum-based product, distillates. There was ZERO "lubricants" on either the S or C's. Indicating to me that the assembly process of the riser failed to provide any form of lubricant. 2- I tested the cam helical with a material similar to plasti-gauge that is designed to prove sharp edges or surface finish. I wrapped this round material around the helix and pulled it through with no sign of material transfer indicating the surface had no sharp edge(s) and was at minimum a 2B micro finish. * I believe concern was expressed regarding the "V notch" area of the helix. This test proved that the v had zero effect on the surface gauge material. 3- What some may consider sharp, outside the radii of the serving, edges of the helix played no part in the track of the cable path.

Test 2 was shooting the bow consecutively 10 times then again inspection of the replacement lubed S&C installed.
At not interval inspection did the S or C show any sign of premature wear or abrasion up to 55 shots.
Photo evidence below:
View attachment 266799

Yes! It is a mess but wanted to insure one extreme to the other. And NO, I would not normally leave all this excess on the cams.
View attachment 266800

Make note on the serving as it came through the cam. I would machine slightly more radii on the hole for a more proportional relief. However at least it is a radius rather a counter sink with corners. Also note lower right the amount of Trident in the string groove.
View attachment 266801

All cables remained pristine after 55 shots. You can see the individual serving wraps on the entire cable. no abrasion or severing.
I will continue to shoot without additional lubrication to prove the maximum number of shots before wear is present. 100, 250, 500, 750,,,,,, Will not know until I get there.
Another note: In the one video the shooter stated the difficulty in "pushing" the sled off the string when cocked. I experienced the same condition on a dry string. Once I lubricated the entire area of the serving that touched the sled, the resistance to remove, "push", the sled dropped by 50%.

Take from this what you will. My takeaway is, and have already done so, sharing with Barnett the fact they need to introduce a robust lubrication process on the assembly of the bows. And before it's said, not to the extreme that I did for this test. The Op's manager at Barnett stated yesterday that they are now inspecting every bow prior to shipping rather their standard AQL level.
Based on the bow I received and tested, I would not hesitate to invest in this bow. I will share all the bells and whistles (along with my dislikes) over the next week after shooting >500 times.
I will say the dislikes are minimal at this point however it's like a marriage, relationships grow or decline over time. I did shoot my final 5 shots at 60 yards with the factory optics, Head hunter arrows, not indexed, with Versa-Nocks, 100 grain tips and was pleased with a 1" grouping out of a tripod. Trigger was,,,,,,, well, incredibly smooth with zero creep. Balance when shouldering was also impressive, darn close to a reverse limb design.

I will be moving my ATN Optics from my Excal 380 over to the Raptor for more detailed ballistic information.
View attachment 266806

In hopes this provides some interesting findings/information and take from it what you will. "Minds are like parachutes, they only work if they open."
More to come as the shot counter increases.
have a great day,
FD

Outstanding. Good stuff. The right stuff FD.

 

[Ironminer]

Beautiful Work! FD

 

[Ironminer]

Definitely not trying to shoot the messenger and I truly appreciate all of your hard work and help. I am just trying to understand how much lube and where to put it is acceptable to maintain this crossbow and the S&C's.

Doesn’t matter to me which xbow I own. I paint the trident on heavy. Let it soak in.
Shoot & wipe.
Repeat as necessary. I have very few string & cable issues.

 

[Ironminer]

Beautiful work

 

[Ironminer]

Beautiful Work!

 

[Ironminer]

Okay Folks, spoke with Barnett engineering and the operations manager in a conference call. Spoke for an hour and a half regarding all the items that have been discussed here. The engineer and I really connected on the Raptor and the recommendations I have made. Refreshing to know they were not "offended" by having constructive criticism offered.
I highlighted the following:

Factory pre-lube of cables and string​

Trigger safety lever revision (stick out)​

Adjust the string center serving to be 7-1/4" wide verses 4-7/8" so the sled does not touch the string thread​

Increase engagement of the fold down grip​

Process to adjust cable centerline as I described earlier​

Issue of shooting moon nocks many times and then the capture nock not setting​

Improving specific instructions for maintenance​

Barnett would like me to sign a mutual NDA to further more detailed proprietary information and designing of corrective actions. At this point I feel comfortable working with them due to their sincere open minded approach to listen. Regardless of what anybody may think, I offer my services for zero compensation or products past consumables for testing purposes. I really like the fact they are laid back and realize new products need to be shot hell out of by an independent that doesn't have a penny in the game. I also made it perfectly clear that I will not be a backer unless the product deserves the accolades. Hang on, they are forward thinking and dedicated to make improvements as necessary.

Working with Perry24 on custom S&C set so members have a reliable member to reach out to for replacements.

I extend my thank you to all members for trusting the information provided to eliminate some of the perceived issues. Long road in a short period of time,,,, what a journey!
FD

Beautiful Work!

 

[Ironminer]

Yes, either pure Trident is fine however a 50/50 mix of Trident and Super Lube silicone provide a wider temperature range: 10F-100F

Just got me to wondering what the freeze point is on this stuff! Last thing I have to worry about is shooting in 100* weather like you guyz!

 

[Ironminer]

My local Dunham’s has them

 

[Ironminer]

Beautiful Work!

 

[Ironminer]

BIG shout out to Perry24. Received the S&C's this morning. Absolutely top of the line craftsmanship.
I had him made some modifications to the OEM string so that when removing the sled after cocking the sled remained on the center serving rather rubbing on the strands of the string while sliding the sled off. Also shared this with Barnett engineering.

Pressed the bow, Installed the new cables and the string (including pre-lubing) with one twist each side. Relaxed the bow and the timing was spot on. Shot ten times to reaffirm timing and was again spot on. Bow shoots dots at 30.

All servings were extremely tight and dressed to perfection. All OD dimensions were +-.002". Loops were also spot on.

I bartered a service for a friend that picked up the cost so I have clue what they cost. However as the commercial said: "Priceless" performance.

Thank you Perry24 and in hopes members support members. You build excellent S&C's

Pics of new Perry24products on the Raptor:

View attachment 267739
Note the width of the center serving to eliminate strand scrubbing by the sled.
View attachment 267740

Below is the timing mark that hit spot on, first time! That's impressive!
View attachment 267741

I demand quality in what I buy/use. I am very satisfied.
FD

Beautiful Work…. Perry24 is the Best!

 

[Ironminer]

The smaller arrows that Tom and I are shooting are in-between the hyper and the standard. The nocks we are using are not capture nocks. The cp 400 nock is more of a moon with tapered edges for better string contact on narrow xbows. The cp 400 is a 6.5 inch wide cocked xbow. View attachment 267811

Where did you acquire those cp400 nocks?

 

[Ironminer]

Can anyone on here besides farm deer possibly please tell me any other brand of arrow beside the Barnett headhunters that are .346 diameter. I’m from a small town and those are not readily available. We do have archery stores, are there any other brands that diameter? Tenpoint, Easton, goldtip, etc etc.

Order them

 

[Ironminer]

I made an additional discover on The Hyper Raptor that does have a direct effect of the bows accuracy beyond cocking methods. I began to experience slight POA to POI error to find:

In #1 photo you will see inside the riser mounting cavity. Note the witness marks in the upper left corner. Also note the lack of witness mark in the upper right, or not as pronounced as the left. Only during the bow being cocked do these points make contact with the barrel end cap shown in photo #2. This causes a slight axial rock of the riser/up/down. This is caused by the main mounting stud, photo #2 of being longer than the distance of upper left and right of the barrel end cap to riser cavity.

In the lower of this photo it shows the two guides that align the riser to the barrel. These have much clearance to the groves in the barrel and allows the riser to rock left to right. **** To test your bow, simply foot the riser as if you were going to cock it. Put you index finger alongside the right or left side bottom of the barrel where it intersects with the riser/Halo. With your other hand and while stepping on your foot securing the riser firmly, push and pull the butt stock left and right. IF you feel any movement with your index finger then one of two things; 1- mounting bolt is loose OR 2- you have clearance as described allowing the riser to move.
Photo #1
View attachment 268223
Beautiful Work!

Photo #2
Note the barrel end cap verifies the points of contact to be on the top indicating when the bow is cocked it is tilted back. The riser cavity and barrel end cap should touch near 100% or movement will occur.
Shortening the riser mounting stud will not correct the side guide issue. It MAY correct the up and down axial movement but not the sided to side due to the end cap being injection molded had indicates a flatness issue as you can see below.

View attachment 268224

Other models in the Barnett lineup have a riser mounting bolt that is more centered, top to bottom thus providing less potential for this to happen. The Raptor has one far below center.

So, how can this be corrected? Two methods I will mention.

1- Having a vertical mill one could machine the front of the barrel end cap to be dead flat while mounted on the barrel. Cut the cavity to be perfectly flat and then cut the mounting stud back to match the newly machined distances. Pot the side guides so the exactly match riser to barrel. This would correct any axial movement; up, down, left, right for solid mounting.

2- For those not having machining capability. There is a product I use that is a potting firm exothermic rubber material used for checking part fit/match. Mix it 50/50 in your fingers and press into the riser cavity and along the side guides. Assemble the riser immediately to the barrel and secure the mounting bolt tightly. This material will extrude/ooze out and leave only what is required to provide a perfect 1:1 match. This IS NOT like epoxy; gooey and sticky, you can trim away all the excess once fully cured in one hour AND be able to remove the riser at any time. All this material does is fill in any voids/imperfections to leave you with as good as a machined fit.
FD

Beautiful Work

 

[Ironminer]

McMaster Carr
View attachment 268245

Your the best!