It just seems you can find threads about every manufacturer having issues of some kind with $1000 to $4000 crossbows why is that? It seem like all you hear is problems with string and cables wearing prematurely, timing and string stretching and limb failures. You would think for that amount of money you are spending, you wouldn't be having these issue so often so early in the game. Is there any crossbow out there that doesn't have issues? probably not. By what I see in these forums. What's your take on this? Is there any cross bow out there that you can shoot without the fear of some thing going wrong right away? They seem to be more of a pain in the rear than compared to a compound bow.
blakeman
Buy a used old model with a proven track record. I agree with you. I'd be terrified to buy a new model today because as you stated nothing seems to work right nor, work for long without alot of hassle. I call them post office xbows that you can send back in during the season for superior customer service while you wait in despair.lol Non of that I want in a hunting xbow that can even withstand dead of winter use.
Older recurve, Old Scorpyd, Older Mission. Ya the ole lifetime warranty stuff.
Older recurve, Old Scorpyd, Older Mission. Ya the ole lifetime warranty stuff.
I'm with Crappie-Tom on this one.....a Scorpyd with Barnsdale limbs, or a Mission Sub-1 or Sub-1 Lite.
Not saying these crossbows are fool-proof.....but darn near it!
And neither Company has changed their basic design much....there is a reason for that....they simply work!
There's been a lot of rush by the manufacturers in recent years to get faster, lighter, smaller, better bows on the market in order to compete with the other manufacturers. Unfortunately, the end result is often bows being released that have engineering issues, lack some basic quality control, and ultimately end up breaking or otherwise failing to perform as advertised.
The days of a specific model being heavily tested and tweaked to perfection over a period of several years is gone. A new model is rushed out the door, only to itself be replaced by an "upgraded" model a year or two later, continuing the cycle.
This is a big reason I'm looking heavily at the Mission Sub-1 series of bows for my next purchase. Mission seems to be the only maker these days taking a sort of "Kaizen" approach to their bow manufacturing where a small selection of models are produced to perfection over a period of many years, and without many of the unnecessary bells and whistles that can sometimes lead to failure.
A bow that works well and lasts a long time...that's my #1 concern.
The days of a specific model being heavily tested and tweaked to perfection over a period of several years is gone. A new model is rushed out the door, only to itself be replaced by an "upgraded" model a year or two later, continuing the cycle.
This is a big reason I'm looking heavily at the Mission Sub-1 series of bows for my next purchase. Mission seems to be the only maker these days taking a sort of "Kaizen" approach to their bow manufacturing where a small selection of models are produced to perfection over a period of many years, and without many of the unnecessary bells and whistles that can sometimes lead to failure.
A bow that works well and lasts a long time...that's my #1 concern.
Mainly a result of inexperienced owners and idiot manufacturers.
Speed kills. Especially the owners of crossbows that are manufactured for one reason, which is speed.
There are precious few bows that have issues when equipped with proper arrow weights and have routine maintenance.
That said...
Even well cared for compounds have issues. Buy a contraption and get a contraptions quirks. Compounds are all about wrenching. I made a good living working on the bows I sold. I would have starved to death selling traditional bows.
LOL
There sure are! But you wont find any of them when speaking to compounds. Some do better than others but as speeds increase, so do the faults. Same with the new/hot recurves just not as bad.
The Excal 308 might be the most problem free crossbow out there but good luck finding one. Nobody will part with them.
Here are some examples I have found that can lead to the problems mentioned in Post #1 which falls back on quality control.
1)string and cable stretch. These are not built under enough tension. As the crossbow draw weights increase, so does the
tension have to be increased as well as the built in safety factor.
2)poor tension on the string and cables causes serving separation even if the serving was installed very tight. My opinion on
back serving, is one does not get those loops as tight as when using the tool.
3)limb slivering (not breaking). I have several crossbows with this happening. 1)The limbs are not properly cured. 2)Too much
downward bow string pressure due to the manufacture not designing the riser to the proper height of the rail stock.
4)wear in the nock on the rail side which if not corrected will eventually move up into the carbon shaft. Too much downward
bowstring pressure. Many crossbows, the groove in the rail is not quite wide enough for the arrow to sit lower which then the
bowstring would properly align in the center of the nock.
5)Carbonite riser failure. This type of riser will not stand the twisting that happens when cocking and shooting the crossbow.
The riser starts to crack from the inside out, then explodes causing more damage to other parts of the crossbow. Plating and
filling in these two large holes with JB weld illiminated that problem. Since, some of the newer models have a gusset installed
as a re enforcement.
6)poor trigger system where some of the early models used two tiny springs where one would partially reset the latch to the
up right position after the shot and the second one would reset the latch after the bow string passed over it when cocking the
crossbow. Trigger Tech has corrected this problem. Import crossbows I have purchased are using a very high quality trigger
system but I do not know what it is called and never had to remove or replace one due to failure.
7)illiminating the cable slide in crossbows that use them prevents the cables from getting chewed up. Serving the cables in
that area with BCY .030 serving in that area greatly increases cable life.
8)illiminating the wax for lubrication which can dry out and gum things up. Trident Silicone Grease available on the internet is
a high quality product that does not dry out or gum up but stays moist. A wee bit goes along way.
9)most crossbows come with a basic scope which requires up grading. A preference would be no scope and let the consumer
purchase their own but manufactures disagree with this idea as some advertise the crossbow as ready to shoot.
10)cam levelling. From feed back I have read, some owners, even the bow shops have never heard of this. Purchasing one
crossbow as a challenge to find out why the bow string would come off or drop to a lower cam level, once the cams were
levelled there was no more problem. I submitted my results so others could view this as well as to some of the dealers that had
received the negative feed back.
Regardless of the price of the crossbow, one should not encounter the assembly problems.
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
1)string and cable stretch. These are not built under enough tension. As the crossbow draw weights increase, so does the
tension have to be increased as well as the built in safety factor.
2)poor tension on the string and cables causes serving separation even if the serving was installed very tight. My opinion on
back serving, is one does not get those loops as tight as when using the tool.
3)limb slivering (not breaking). I have several crossbows with this happening. 1)The limbs are not properly cured. 2)Too much
downward bow string pressure due to the manufacture not designing the riser to the proper height of the rail stock.
4)wear in the nock on the rail side which if not corrected will eventually move up into the carbon shaft. Too much downward
bowstring pressure. Many crossbows, the groove in the rail is not quite wide enough for the arrow to sit lower which then the
bowstring would properly align in the center of the nock.
5)Carbonite riser failure. This type of riser will not stand the twisting that happens when cocking and shooting the crossbow.
The riser starts to crack from the inside out, then explodes causing more damage to other parts of the crossbow. Plating and
filling in these two large holes with JB weld illiminated that problem. Since, some of the newer models have a gusset installed
as a re enforcement.
6)poor trigger system where some of the early models used two tiny springs where one would partially reset the latch to the
up right position after the shot and the second one would reset the latch after the bow string passed over it when cocking the
crossbow. Trigger Tech has corrected this problem. Import crossbows I have purchased are using a very high quality trigger
system but I do not know what it is called and never had to remove or replace one due to failure.
7)illiminating the cable slide in crossbows that use them prevents the cables from getting chewed up. Serving the cables in
that area with BCY .030 serving in that area greatly increases cable life.
8)illiminating the wax for lubrication which can dry out and gum things up. Trident Silicone Grease available on the internet is
a high quality product that does not dry out or gum up but stays moist. A wee bit goes along way.
9)most crossbows come with a basic scope which requires up grading. A preference would be no scope and let the consumer
purchase their own but manufactures disagree with this idea as some advertise the crossbow as ready to shoot.
10)cam levelling. From feed back I have read, some owners, even the bow shops have never heard of this. Purchasing one
crossbow as a challenge to find out why the bow string would come off or drop to a lower cam level, once the cams were
levelled there was no more problem. I submitted my results so others could view this as well as to some of the dealers that had
received the negative feed back.
Regardless of the price of the crossbow, one should not encounter the assembly problems.
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
When people have a problem with their new crossbows they get online and end up on a crossbow forum ( I did also) and complain about the problem they are having with their new bow. Even members that have been here for years post any problem they have usually. The point is that we are a very small portion of overall crossbow owners. For every complaint you see posted on the forums there are hundreds and possibly thousands of owners who are happy with their bows. It looks terrible when you see 20 or 30 cases of splintered or broken limb reports, etc. but that does not mean that it is really a huge problem. Back when Excalibur had some terrible limb problems from over heating when applying camo they were still reporting around a 1% failure rate but reading the forums you would have thought it was closer to 90%.
I came to like crossbows that are not "cutting edge", but rather solid and proven yesterday's technology.
Forgoing 50...100 fps in speed, but a rock solid reliability. Even most Taiwan-made recurve xbows for 100...300$ are more reliable than 1000+$ state-of-the-art devices nowadays.
And they still pack enough punch to kill anything on two or for legs ...
Forgoing 50...100 fps in speed, but a rock solid reliability. Even most Taiwan-made recurve xbows for 100...300$ are more reliable than 1000+$ state-of-the-art devices nowadays.
And they still pack enough punch to kill anything on two or for legs ...
For the owners that do not shoot their crossbow very much, many may never run into these problems.
One crossbow failed at 330 shots where another started to show limb problems at 1300 where the limb
coating started to peel. That was my first indication that something was wrong with either the limb or the
coating as I had similar bows with limb slivering. 1400 shots, tiny slivers appeared where the coating
came off. I disassembled the crossbow and using high quality electrical tape, taped all the limbs starting
near the cams and going to the end of the limb where it fits in the limb pocket. At 2650 I removed the limbs
for further inspection. Uncocked and cocked the axle measurements had not changed but what did change
is when measuring the crossbow in the cocked position from the axle to the nearest rail-stock edge. The
stronger limbs will pull the weaker ones closer to the rail-stock.
Adjusting the scope for windage with this problem, I could still hit my point of aim.
The strong set of limbs showed not damage. I then took another set using the one set that was still good
and reassembled the crossbow. Back to shooting at 100% accuracy.
I replaced the serving in the arrow latch area with the original bowstring showing 3049 shots. I had added
at top layer of BCY .030 serving as added protection to the manufactures base layer when first purchasing the
crossbow. Removing my top layer, I found separation in the base layer in the arrow area which caused my top
layer to start to separate. I removed the base layer and this time as a trial I installed BCY .025 Power Grip, then
the BCY .030 as the top layer.
The crossbows I refer to are manufactured in Taiwan under different names for who ever requires them. Removing
their serving, it was installed the same direction the bow string is twisted. This is the way I install all my servings.
Installed with the bow string under enough tension and the serving installed tight enough, i have had no separation.
This is the crossbow where I did not install the cable slide but served the cables with BCY .030. They have the
same number of shots (3049) that the bowstring had. The serving I put on the cables is like new. No more chewed
up cables caused by a cable slide plus one gains a few feet per second due to removing the cable slide which causes
friction when cocking and shooting the crossbow.
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
One crossbow failed at 330 shots where another started to show limb problems at 1300 where the limb
coating started to peel. That was my first indication that something was wrong with either the limb or the
coating as I had similar bows with limb slivering. 1400 shots, tiny slivers appeared where the coating
came off. I disassembled the crossbow and using high quality electrical tape, taped all the limbs starting
near the cams and going to the end of the limb where it fits in the limb pocket. At 2650 I removed the limbs
for further inspection. Uncocked and cocked the axle measurements had not changed but what did change
is when measuring the crossbow in the cocked position from the axle to the nearest rail-stock edge. The
stronger limbs will pull the weaker ones closer to the rail-stock.
Adjusting the scope for windage with this problem, I could still hit my point of aim.
The strong set of limbs showed not damage. I then took another set using the one set that was still good
and reassembled the crossbow. Back to shooting at 100% accuracy.
I replaced the serving in the arrow latch area with the original bowstring showing 3049 shots. I had added
at top layer of BCY .030 serving as added protection to the manufactures base layer when first purchasing the
crossbow. Removing my top layer, I found separation in the base layer in the arrow area which caused my top
layer to start to separate. I removed the base layer and this time as a trial I installed BCY .025 Power Grip, then
the BCY .030 as the top layer.
The crossbows I refer to are manufactured in Taiwan under different names for who ever requires them. Removing
their serving, it was installed the same direction the bow string is twisted. This is the way I install all my servings.
Installed with the bow string under enough tension and the serving installed tight enough, i have had no separation.
This is the crossbow where I did not install the cable slide but served the cables with BCY .030. They have the
same number of shots (3049) that the bowstring had. The serving I put on the cables is like new. No more chewed
up cables caused by a cable slide plus one gains a few feet per second due to removing the cable slide which causes
friction when cocking and shooting the crossbow.
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
Because every year it's a competition to see who can come out with the fastest and smallest bow, instead of working on fixing and improving existing models. The more sophisticated they are, the more chances for problems.
A $300 crossbow could last ten years with no maintenance. A $3000 crossbow could crack a limb in 10 shots. One just never knows. Their is just a ton of mechanical stresses on modern day crossbows. Shorter, faster, lighter, narrower adds to the stresses. I am a low maintenance kind of guy. That is why I would prefer to take my chances with a high 300 fps bow and about 14-16 inches limb width and limbs less than #200.
Agree. There is a limit to how much technology I will accept in a bow. I was reluctant to buy my TP Stealth NXT if I couldn't cock it with a rope if the mechanical draw failed. I will never buy a bow that can only be drawn mechanically.
What I have found, if one shoots the crossbow very little there is less chance of limb failure.
Shooting lots like I have been doing, the limbs will not with stand the constant flexing when
cocking and shooting. My limbs did not physically break or explode, but developed slivers
that unless the limb was re enforced at the start would get progressively worse. In the cocked
position, the stronger limb would pull the weaker one closer to the rail-stock. Uncocked and
cocked the axle to axle measurement never changed, just the axle measurement to the nearest
edge of the rail-stock. The same can happen to certain crossbow risers depending on how they
are deigned and the materials used.
Some of these crossbows were tested in stock condition while others were modified showing
the following improvements.
The crossbows I have shot, I have over come the weak Carbonite risers by re enforcing them.
Illiminating the cable slide and serving that area corrected the cable wear. Adding shims where
one was able, as well as adding a second layer of high quality serving in the arrow-latch area
(on crossbows using 1/2 moon nocks) illimiinated the downward bowstring pressure and greatly
increased the amount of shots before having to reserve the crossbow string.
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
Shooting lots like I have been doing, the limbs will not with stand the constant flexing when
cocking and shooting. My limbs did not physically break or explode, but developed slivers
that unless the limb was re enforced at the start would get progressively worse. In the cocked
position, the stronger limb would pull the weaker one closer to the rail-stock. Uncocked and
cocked the axle to axle measurement never changed, just the axle measurement to the nearest
edge of the rail-stock. The same can happen to certain crossbow risers depending on how they
are deigned and the materials used.
Some of these crossbows were tested in stock condition while others were modified showing
the following improvements.
The crossbows I have shot, I have over come the weak Carbonite risers by re enforcing them.
Illiminating the cable slide and serving that area corrected the cable wear. Adding shims where
one was able, as well as adding a second layer of high quality serving in the arrow-latch area
(on crossbows using 1/2 moon nocks) illimiinated the downward bowstring pressure and greatly
increased the amount of shots before having to reserve the crossbow string.
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
When speed and narrow, short limbs are the focus the price is high maintenance and failure. The marketing boys convince us that faster, faster, faster is where we want to be in order to sell new models. They also push short limbed, narrow designs that require hardly any limb clearance to shoot. Then we compound the issue shooting minimum weight arrows to get all the fps they told us we just had to have.
Archery is archery and some things just don't change. I well remember when the minimum arrow weight for any bow was 6 grains per pound. Under that weight and the manufacturers warned that all bets were off. Let's face it, even those of us who like heavy arrows aren't even close to that weight out of our crossbows. To be at that weight a 200# set of limbs would require a 1,200gr arrow.
All that noise, vibration, and bow jump we get from a crossbow is nothing but unused energy beating on the bow with every shot. We hang rubber gizmos all over the bow in an attempt to dampen the annoying byproducts of the energy transfer, but that unused energy is still hammering away at the every part of the bow on every shot.
Then the short limbs which are convenient add to the issues. Not only is there less limb area to flex and then store the energy there is also a shorter string. String angles are much higher and wear on servings is much greater as the pinch at the latches increases.
If you want narrow and fast without the failures get a rifle. On the other hand, if you can be happy with a 30" uncocked limb width, shooting a 450gr or heavier arrow, and don't feel inadequate with arrow speeds in the 300 to 320 fps you will eliminate most of the common failures.
I have an Excalibur Matrix 330 and an imported clone of the older widelimbed Excals. Both bows are shooting 450gr or heavier arrows in the 308 fps range. Both have over 1,000 shots and have only had one reserving job. Both bows are over 5 years old and neither has had a failure of any kind.
Archery is archery and some things just don't change. I well remember when the minimum arrow weight for any bow was 6 grains per pound. Under that weight and the manufacturers warned that all bets were off. Let's face it, even those of us who like heavy arrows aren't even close to that weight out of our crossbows. To be at that weight a 200# set of limbs would require a 1,200gr arrow.
All that noise, vibration, and bow jump we get from a crossbow is nothing but unused energy beating on the bow with every shot. We hang rubber gizmos all over the bow in an attempt to dampen the annoying byproducts of the energy transfer, but that unused energy is still hammering away at the every part of the bow on every shot.
Then the short limbs which are convenient add to the issues. Not only is there less limb area to flex and then store the energy there is also a shorter string. String angles are much higher and wear on servings is much greater as the pinch at the latches increases.
If you want narrow and fast without the failures get a rifle. On the other hand, if you can be happy with a 30" uncocked limb width, shooting a 450gr or heavier arrow, and don't feel inadequate with arrow speeds in the 300 to 320 fps you will eliminate most of the common failures.
I have an Excalibur Matrix 330 and an imported clone of the older widelimbed Excals. Both bows are shooting 450gr or heavier arrows in the 308 fps range. Both have over 1,000 shots and have only had one reserving job. Both bows are over 5 years old and neither has had a failure of any kind.
The Missions, Excalibur's, and Scorpyd bows are less finicky due to their more simple designs. Like Gene said you can easily have a limb issue with any bow. The three I listed normally have less to go wrong.
My take? ... Four words: "Marketing and poor engineering." They've convinced us we need high performance products that are poorly engineered, poorly tested, and ultimately poorly made. We all read about the super fit and quality of the mainstream offenders but once you get passed the "eye test" the reason for a pandemic of serving separations, leaning cams, splitting limbs, retarded proprietary consumables, is undersized, over-rated components with an eye on profits. Unlike Mauser or Beretta who design & build for their product to serve for centuries, crossbows are fraught with problems that shouldn't be problems. But, like repeatedly electing bottom feeder politicians, and letting the school system indoctrinate our children to hate themselves and our nation WE let this happen. WE are the problem because we continue to support these products.
![203654]( "203654")
The old style Excalibur's were as bomb proof as any bow has ever been. The lower poundage Excaliburs are close to those and imo a good choice.
I bought a used Mission 400 (camo) 7 years ago that was a year old. Other than reserving the center serving i have replaced the strings once and the limbs once. And it just a very small sliver on one limb.
I bought a new Mission 400 the same year but about 6 months latter black. I had to send it back 2 times maybe 3 because the trigger box wasn't square with the rail. After i called they just sent me a new bow. I have replaced the strings once and reserved both. This bow is on its 3rd set of limbs again very small slivers. That in no way were hunt ending and i never saw any loss of accuracy or anything else.
I used to shoot a lot and i mean a lot.
Every year without fail there will be a latest greatest gotta have. Always have been and likely always well. Just set back and watch and learn to read between the lines. Then make up your own mind do i want to fool with it or get something else.
I bought a used Mission 400 (camo) 7 years ago that was a year old. Other than reserving the center serving i have replaced the strings once and the limbs once. And it just a very small sliver on one limb.
I bought a new Mission 400 the same year but about 6 months latter black. I had to send it back 2 times maybe 3 because the trigger box wasn't square with the rail. After i called they just sent me a new bow. I have replaced the strings once and reserved both. This bow is on its 3rd set of limbs again very small slivers. That in no way were hunt ending and i never saw any loss of accuracy or anything else.
I used to shoot a lot and i mean a lot
.Every year without fail there will be a latest greatest gotta have. Always have been and likely always well. Just set back and watch and learn to read between the lines. Then make up your own mind do i want to fool with it or get something else.
The reason reliable crossbows aren't more readily available could be largely because the reliable processes available were not used properly.
The processes are called the DFMEA (Design Failure Mode Effects and Analyzes) and PFMEA ( Process Failure Mode Effects and Analyzes).
Yes these are complicated terms that apply to the design process and the manufacturing process use to produce the crossbows. These two documents help guide the degree of quality resulting in the final product.
These quality control documents drafted at the design creation stage and process design stage to ensure all failure modes have countermeasures in place to prevent failures. Failure modes are anything that causes the device to fail. These two documents help guide the degree of quality resulting in the final product.
It is up to the company administrators to make sure their organization is following the procedures as defined in these documents to have high quality.
It takes tons of pain staking work to draft the documents and to implement the countermeasures to get the desired results (reliability). If crossbows are bought from overseas supplier then who knows what is being done to control quality to insure reliability.
Have a nice day!
Spot
The processes are called the DFMEA (Design Failure Mode Effects and Analyzes) and PFMEA ( Process Failure Mode Effects and Analyzes).
Yes these are complicated terms that apply to the design process and the manufacturing process use to produce the crossbows. These two documents help guide the degree of quality resulting in the final product.
These quality control documents drafted at the design creation stage and process design stage to ensure all failure modes have countermeasures in place to prevent failures. Failure modes are anything that causes the device to fail. These two documents help guide the degree of quality resulting in the final product.
It is up to the company administrators to make sure their organization is following the procedures as defined in these documents to have high quality.
It takes tons of pain staking work to draft the documents and to implement the countermeasures to get the desired results (reliability). If crossbows are bought from overseas supplier then who knows what is being done to control quality to insure reliability.
Have a nice day!
Spot
And that is why I would wait at least a year before purchasing something brand new. Let 'em get the kinks worked out.
someone always has to bring up a $100 bow will kill a deer just as good as a $3000 bow the argument don't hold water. A flip phone would work as good as a smart phone to call or text also. A cheap car will get you to work as good as a $50000 truck will etc. etc. etc. It is just not a valid argument people want stuff that is nicer and more convienent. How many people live in a 3 bedroom house or bigger and it just them or them and the wife.
That's your take but it's not mine. I could buy any of these shiny things but fact of the matter is that there is no reason too.
Plenty of people like me and plenty like you.
There is no one side is right to this.
Plenty of people like me and plenty like you.
There is no one side is right to this.
they are in fierce competion for that dollar,and the manufactures hold all the aces,look at the carte blanch they got in their warranties,[its the sole discretion of the manufacturer].i recently bought what i consider a high end xbow, which i regret,...what am i getting, easier to cock but premature abraision on the thin small diameter string in has!...i sent it back twice,the first time was on them,the second time i had to pony up 65 $ for shipping ,is it fixed ,i don't know yet,but i doubt it,...the thing is, it has no... rail and was touted to have less string wear,because no friction with the rail!...another thing is that these REVIEWS you read are totally inadequate!
The decision I make for virtually eliminating durability problems with recent 400+ FPS crossbows is simply to slow them down.
My 2.5 year old Ravin R26 was a string/cable disaster. I simply installed R29 Archery Shack string and cables which dropped the arrow speed from 403fps to 352 fps. It has been a total bullet proof bow since. I get to enjoy all its great features without having to put up with the speed related bs. I also slowed another 405 FPS crossbow down to 362 fps by shimming the limbs. Totally trouble free since. If I can’t successfully take deer with 350 to 360 fps crossbows, I need to stay at home on the front porch😊. Shoot on guys!!👍🏻
My 2.5 year old Ravin R26 was a string/cable disaster. I simply installed R29 Archery Shack string and cables which dropped the arrow speed from 403fps to 352 fps. It has been a total bullet proof bow since. I get to enjoy all its great features without having to put up with the speed related bs. I also slowed another 405 FPS crossbow down to 362 fps by shimming the limbs. Totally trouble free since. If I can’t successfully take deer with 350 to 360 fps crossbows, I need to stay at home on the front porch😊. Shoot on guys!!👍🏻
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