[rt2bowhunter]

Here’s a better look at the vanes. The orange is right helical you can see the twist the helical clamp puts on the vane. When using a crossbow your limited to how much twist or offset you can use. Or at least as much as I care to use. Imo you need to miss the retaining arm and not fight the rail grove all the way down the rail. That’s about as much as I feel comfortable with.

The yellow is the same slight offset as the hellfire vanes. Straight clamp was used so no twist the helical clamp impaired to the vane. Thus less spin the hellfire has that kicker it’s my understanding it spins faster than a helical. For sure faster than any of those.

If you have a bow like I do where you can watch the arrow fly to the target. You will notice the yellow fletched arrow the nock will wonder all the way to the target. It shoots good and once sighted in it will shoot a good group. But it’s not stable in flight.

The helical will wonder less the more helical the less it will wonder. But here like I said your restrained from using to much helical. Or hope for the best and let the vanes encounter interference as it slides down the rail or pass through a rest.

The reason I started using the QS years ago wondering and trying this and that vane but always coming back. You get all the benefits of a lot of helical and keep the benefits of a straight fletched vane because it is.

Imo your looking for what I call a still nock. In other words when my arrows fly to the target. The nock is still in the air just like you laid on a table and got back and looked at it. It’s still . This leads to better penetration because it’s going in a deer straight. Also better broadhead flight. And as I showed inside most hunting ranges there’s no difference in poi to worry about.

Im not trying to persuade one way or the other . Just bored lol and just passing along how and why I do what I do.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

interesting for sure. That orange one does have as much helical as i would ever use too.

So you like those hell fire vanes....? I really like the older spinwings allot but they never seem to make more then a season before they come off or dry up and crack. Even the white ones, it just took a little longer for those.

So far after probably 4 or 5 years pretty much since they came out that i knew of them anyway. Well i called NAP and ask if i could buy some before they were available. I have not had one tear up rot or fall off. I did take a short cut and didn't use primer and i had a few come off. But other than that zero problems. I even left one fletched outside for a year rain snow you name it. I still shoot it .

The Vantech are great vanes shoot super good. But they will wrinkle if they get shot into the blob of a field tip target.

The Hellfires won't. I just went out and pushed one in the blob backwards then turned it several times to really stress the vanes.

I’ll leave it in there for a few hours and post a pic of the vanes. I took some witnesses with me.

There enjoying some outside time today. I give them about 4 hours a day to explore and learn.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

Thinking a little further on this I believe once the swhacker enters the deer and opens up that rotation has stopped thru the winglets having to cut into the hide. I would have to say blade bending is the result of other factors???

The swhacker has a left bevel grind on the winglets. That should start to arrest the right helical. I agree the blades should dampen the rotation then arrest it.

From what I have noticed if the broadhead doesn’t promote the spin it will deaden it then stop it. I don’t think there’s a stop sign on the deer. I offer as proof if you shoot left helical it will loosen your field tips and broadheads. This is a well known fact so if it stoped dead this wouldn’t happen.

It’s now been 8 hours all I did was pull the vanes out and take a pic of each vane as straight on as I could.

By the time I walked back to the kennel checked in the puppies that was out about 10 hours. They were wore out lol and sound asleep. Then on to the house fooling with the vanes as I walked they were all straight other than wear this arrow has been shot a lot. It looked just fine.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

sorry my friend but Swhacker opening tabs are most definitely left bevel sharpened. Or at least mine are. Here is a well know left bevel sharpened broadhead along side a swhacker 150 gr broadhead.

you can see the left side blade is not sharpened while the right side blade is. This makes it a single bevel left wing grind. To assist the traditional left bevel head on the left you must use left wing feathers or left helical.

A quick search I found a VPA add for there single bevel offering.

The left bevel of the swhacker opening tabs will try and stop or at least slow the rotation down. Before the double bevel of the main blades open. Unless your using left helical. Then it will reinforce the left bevel’s tendency to rotate once it’s in the deer.

This has nothing to do with flight.

Shooting a left wing or left helical vane must be rotating at least some to loosen the field tip. It is true in a target the point is arrested but the rotation of the shaft must still turn for it to loosen. I don’t think there’s a stop sign on a deer anywhere near likes on a target. And rotation when a vane spins so fast and is right helical that tightness the tip. Hits a deer that energy has to go somewhere it has to try and rotate the tip or broadhead because at that time it’s locked it’s self to the shaft.

But to see true broadhead rotation you need a single bevel sharpened head that matches the helical used.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

After searching off and on today there’s 2 sides to the coin when it comes to single bevel. I followed Dr Ashby and used the single bevel Grizzly left bevel for years. It’s not just bone busting it’s also to get a star effect where the spinning head pulls twists and cuts well outside of the cutting diameter.

Let me try best as I understand lol. How you tell if it’s a right or left bevel. And how confusing it is. I’ll use the old grizzly you can see it better.

Your supposed to point the broadhead away from you and the side the bevel is on is the grind it is

Ok here we go

As you can see the bevel is on the right so it’s a right bevel right. Well not so fast.

If I hold it differently rotating it counterclockwise now the grind or bevel is on the left.

Most people thing the bevel influences the rotation. But in fact it’s more of a relief. The UN sharpened side has more leverage and will spin the broadhead ccw.

Feel like you in Alice in wonderland yet lol.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

Maybe they should specify on the package what direction the BH wants to spin naturally.

The broadhead I posted above is 200% sure a left bevel left wing left helical broadhead. If someone says it’s not there wrong or Dr Ashby was wrong.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

So are the Swhackers left spin? I just fletched a few arrows same as TomOnTheRun and Huntersthompson left offset. My hunting BH are Swhackers.

your fine

 

[rt2bowhunter]

rt2bowhunter, you said "you skipped primer and had a few come off", what primer did you use?

I don't think it matters I have TAC vanes primer pin i'm using now.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

Yep, primer is a must for arrow adhesion with vanes that are not pre-primed.

I have fletched a bunch of Hellfire vanes without primer using the Gorilla bluetop super glue from the hardware store.

Unsure what happened with the 5 or 6 out of about 25 arrows i fletched and shot several times each and that's just for the Excal BD the Missions have not lost any yet probably 15 arrows for them.

I noticed one came lose pulling the arrow from the target (i just grab the vanes) I don't baby stuff to much lol. Then i got to checking and found some arrows that the vanes come off. Some it was one vane some of them was all 3 but i had to pull twist to get them to come off. Anyway i ordered some primer its a good idea to use it. And they seem to be glued on pretty stout now.


Hunting season is headed are way best to forget the speculation and make sure .

 

[rt2bowhunter]

Yeah i agree I wish you could buy 100 packs of the same color. A man might call them and ask.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

I guess I should have quoted No1 . I was responding to his post about hellfire vanes only selling in packs with a off color cock vane.

I also fletch all 3 vanes the same color just incase I need to nock tune. I just use the same color vanes for all 3.

The cock vane gets a dot once it’s nocked tuned then a 1 once it’s proven to be extremely accurate with a broadhead. Some indexed and nocked tuned don’t make the grade it’s very rare. But to get the 1 means it’s proven and a hunter.
Now if I have to refletch for some reason and it’s a 1 I’ll fletch with a white cock vane and what ever color hens. I don’t get hung up on colors .

Edit
If anyone decides to try these vanes. It’s best to have a clamp that is relieved so as not to influence the wing or what I call the kicker on the vane. You can modify a Blitz clamp and it will work fine. I use the firenock jig and clamp.

Hope this clears my post up .

 

[rt2bowhunter]

Where would you modify a Bitz clamp?

If you notice on the back of the vane there's a kicker. This is what gives it spin. I just placed a vane in the clamp marked it best i could where i needed to remove material. Put a burr grinder bit in my Dremel and keep grinding until the vane set flat in the clamp. More or less recessed a nest for the kicker .

Your supposed to run them straight. I run mine with a .013 right offset. I think it gives them a little faster kick to start rotating fast but have no proof to offer. And i have ran them helical out of vertical bows.

And i'll note there a tall vane so if you have a shallow rail. These are probably going to hit. I have never walked out the door in my life with a bow that even shot 400 fps so hyper speed bows i have no clue how they work. Just pointing out the good bad and ugly.

 

[rt2bowhunter]

There's not any hard fast rules for offset (other than rt offset) using these vanes. You can fletch them straight offset and helical if you wish. Using these vanes with helical will probably create a good bit of drag but i have never tested at crossbow speeds.

To your question no there shouldn't be any down side other than some added drag. Possibility maybe a louder arrow in flight.

Spin or helicals job is to cancel out archer's paradox as fast as possible. It pulls the arrow back to straight. While it won't make a single arrow shoot better. It does make a group of arrows fly more alike. There's also a bigger benefit when you put wings on the front of the arrow (blades) that catch air and try and control flight.

I'm happy your having a good experience using them.