It is not normal. Either the arrow is bent or rail is.
About downforce, it should not have effect. I currently have 4 xbowz and none behave like yours.

 

T-Hunter - What bow are you shooting? I've just been down this road with my Barnett Ghost 360 - I might be able to shed some light on the subject!

 

Shooting a Parker Thunder Hawk. I called Parker a little bit ago and they said that it is normal. He asked me how the accuracy was and I told him I was putting them right in the dot from 50 yards. Guess I'll just go with it.

 

I'll try to do a long story short thing here - so I get a Ghost 360 and I am shocked that the arrow is not perfectly flat on the rail once it's loaded. I check the owners manual and it specifically states to BE SURE that the arrow is flat to the rail, "When properly loaded, the arrow should lie flat on the flight track ...." when I called Barnett Support they said not to worry and that they would be changing the manual to "correct" that. They told me that up to 1/4" up at the front was acceptable, any more than that and I should send the bow in for warranty service.

So, I was just having a bit of trouble accepting that and sent the bow back. In the mean time I started shopping for a non-Barnett. I shot a TenPoint with a composite rail and a Horton with an aluminum rail - those arrows were PERFECTLY flat on the flight track. Problem was the fact that neither of those bows grabbed me like the Barnett did. I ordered Ghost #2. Wow, much better than the first one - off the rail just a bit at the tip, but way better than Ghost #1! I figured that I could live with that. However, the cams were out of time on the riser assembly ... sigh, so I ordered Ghost #3! I ended up "building" my bow with the stock from #2, the riser from #3, and what looked to be a somewhat updated Cross 4x32 Illuminated scope from #3. Then I shipped the defective parts back to Amazon for a full refund.

So, that's my story and as you have found a bit of a rise at the tip of the arrow does not seem to affect the accuracy. I've been shooting in my basement (we've got that Winter Thing going here in WI) and at 14 yards I can put an arrow into the same hole, so I'm pretty happy with that!

 

So, it took 3 Ghost bows and you piece milling them together to get 1 that was right ..., and some people wonder why Barnett gets a bad rap..

Simply incredulous...

 

It was quite a test of patience ... it helps that I'm a tree farmer!

The "pack" dates on bows were all between about 10/2016 and 12/2016, so it's not like it was one person having a bad day! I did get a bit annoyed at the QA checklist inside the cover of each box where everything was given the OK! Oh, and one of the 3 had an "old" Owners Manual from 2014, when the Ghost 360 was first released - that of course did not have the correct info on the Brush Arrow Retainer which was introduced in 2016.

All's well that ends well.

 

Well congrats on sticking with it. At least it turned out well for you. Hope things hang in there and you fill your tags with it.

 

I owned a Parker Bushwhacker for a time and funny you mention it, mine did the same thing. I never noticed that it changed the point of impact at all. The arrows always hit where I was aiming. I never called Parker about it. I just assumed that the string put some downward pressure on the back end of the arrow. I also owned an older model Parker Tornado and the arrows laid flat on the rail all the time.

 

Very interesting that two Parker's were so different. And interesting that the older Parker had the arrow that laid flat and the newer one was raised.

As long as it shoots straight all is good!

 

Th problem can also be caused by an arrow adjustment spring not properly adjusted, and using a capture nock -like on the Red Hot arrows or some Frenocks- and string too much down pressure.

 

You nailed it - anything pressing down on the rear part of the arrow will do it - and there's only 3 things back there - the arrow retainer, the ADF, and the string. Any one (or all of those) can be the cause of the lift.

 

I've thought of that but I see no way of adjusting it. There is wear on the aft of the arrows (left side) and the nocks.

 

Check your string to nock fit. Been through this myself many times. It's all about the depth of the valley of the rail that the arrow sits in compared to the diameter of the arrow/nock and where it aligns to the diameter of the string/serving. Confused? Grab a small flashlight and observe closely while you slide an arrow back slowly onto the cocked string....does the nock line up perfectly with the center of the string or is the string above or below the center of the nock? I'm guessing you'll see that your nock is above center line of the string and when you push it back it lifts the front of your arrow.

 

Check your string to nock fit. It's all about the depth of the valley of the rail that the arrow sits in compared to the diameter of the arrow/nock and where it aligns to the diameter of the string/serving.

Nailed it

 

Not normal could be brush pressure or a faulty brush could also be anti dry fire or both but the bolt should ride flat on the rail at least that's what my Barnett does & Barnett manual says bolt should ride flat all the way down rail . My concern would be for safety not weather it seems to shoot alright the way it is, be careful as i'm sure you know these xbows retain a lot of power & when something goes wrong or isn't quite right things can turn dangerous quickly.

 

Stalker, another member on here, uses aluminum nocks and customizes them for his bow.
He still gets the wear marks but not as bad, as do I.
Mine does the same thing and in no way affects the accuracy.

You can lay a straight edge on the rail and see that it is more than likely the retainer.

If it bothers you, trade it, sell it, return it or whatever.

Tree Farmer saw that I had commented on this same issue awhile back and contacted myself and others about this.

I sent him pictures of mine for comparison and he had a separate issue of a faulty retainer adjustment.

Like I said, if you go back through you will find it isn't that uncommon. You will also find those that bash Barnett for it.
Forums are full of opinions.

That said, the tip of the arrow did NOT sit flush when I dropped my Buck at 30 yds.

 

Agreed. I can put it right in the dot from 50 yards with no problem with a field point on the end of the arrow. With a Rage Hypo it is very close to it, if not right in, the dot.

 

Hard to argue with pruff like that.

 

Thanks, the bow is up to it IF I do my part. The big IF would be in the woods when trying to get a good bead out of my tree stand. Most likely be closer up shots but it's nice to know your equipment's capabilities anyway.

 

I hear you. My fifth reticle is at 66 yds. Absolutely great in a target but I wouldn't punch it that far in a deer.

 

Yeah, they may say a little rise is ok but it is not ok at all. The bolt should lie completely flat on the rail from nock to tip. If not it could be a number of things from the brush or bolt retainer could be installed wrong , to the anti dry-fire isn't set right or even the bolt itself could be warped . That can be figured out by trying other bolts .If they all sit on the rail raised it's not the bolts try the other things i mentioned. There was a member a while back with this same problem but it was a Barnett xbow. They told him a little rise is ok but in my manual for my Barnett xbow it specifically states that the bolt must be sitting completely flat on the rail for the whole length of the rail. Don't let them bull -hit you, even though the xbow may seem to function ok it was not meant to have any rise at all & can be bad for you & your xbow to continue shooting it in this condition. I mean hell don't you deserve to have the xbow function correctly after all you paid for it & that was supposed to be in correct functioning order not close to correct after all you didn't pay close to what they wanted did you.Do what you will but i would get this problem corrected by the maker or get another xbow before it's to late to do so. Good Luck man.

 

My brand-new Barnett FX Raptor had a little rise for the first 5 or so shots; then I noticed the nock was not making tight contact with the string. It was touching (I don't care for the triangular nocks) the string, but I found I could make a more positive contact with the string if I seated the arrow firmly.
After bending up the retaining spring on my son's Carbon Express ( not cheap), I really like the brush now. Its the triangle nocks that need to go.

 

Its the triangle nocks that need to go.

If by triangle you mean half moon, then you will want to keep using these to prevent possible string release over the arrow, and possible dryfire.

It is the incorrect width of the arrow groove that seats the arrow higher than where the string at latch contacts the nock, that is problem in most cases. This causes the arrow to lift at the front when it is fully nocked to the string. Endemic to most Barnetts,

 

Just a note. It seems like this issue has come up more on Barnetts that have a composite rail and not aluminum. It has been known that some of the composite rails seem to have a small dip at the end of the rail. And Barnett has stated that a 1/8 of a inch is exceptable, and will not cause accuracy problems. And there is also the nock not hitting the string dead center, and the adf having pressure that wants to keep the rear of the arrow up. And if your retainer is not adjusted enough to hold your arrow down, that you may see some lift.But these symptons seem not to be on the higher priced Barnett crossbows. But maybe the new Talon nock, may help.

 

I've had several crossbows that had the stock/rail made out of composite material, and the composite must have warped when it cooled because the arrow would not/could not lay flat in the track. I sent crossbows back to the company and they returned new crossbows complete with a warped track. I bought a composite Barnett crossbow in a town about 30 miles from where I live. I carefully checked the display model for straightness and decided that it looked like the arrow was fully supported along the entire length of the track. First thing I did when I arrived home was to take the new crossbow out of the box and lay an arrow in the track. The track was warped, so I returned the bow next day, having never assembled or shot the bow. At the time, I began to look at crossbows with composite rails to see which ones had true and straight rails, and Parker was the best I saw at the time, It looked like they took the extra step to mill the top of their rails true, so I'm surprised; sounds like they may have let down on their quality some, or a bad one got out.

These bows cost too much to put up with crap quality, and to have the manufacturer tell you everything is OK. In each case, the bow shot good, but knowing about the defect destroyed an intangible called "pride of ownership". Pride of ownership is so important, that it will cause forum fights about which bow is best.

I don't know why buyers put up with this in crossbows. I don't know anyone who would put up with a rifle with a bent barrel; there really is no difference. I had hoped people would have quit buying this crap so the manufacturers would get the message and fix the problem, BUT there isn't any real need to put out a quality product if people keep buying the stuff and telling themselves everything is just fine. I can't stand to have an obvious defect in workmanship and materials in my crossbows. Buy a quality bow with aluminum, or at least machined rails. If you must buy a bow with a composite rail, at least lay an arrow in the track while you're in the store, and if it's not fully supported in a straight track, refuse to buy it and tell them why.

 

These bows cost too much to put up with crap quality, and to have the manufacturer tell you everything is OK. In each case, the bow shot good, but knowing about the defect destroyed an intangible called "pride of ownership". Pride of ownership is so important, that it will cause forum fights about which bow is best.

I don't know why buyers put up with this in crossbows. I don't know anyone who would put up with a rifle with a bent barrel; there really is no difference. I had hoped people would have quit buying this crap so the manufacturers would get the message and fix the problem, .

Fantastic post.

Should be a sticky!!

 

Awesome post, Jack. I agree 100%.

Hopefully I will be able to check this out a little more today IF the snow melts and the weather permits. I finally got the primer and acetone and fletched up a couple of my arrows again. My thoughts are, just maybe, the arrow was not laying flat due to the taller fletchings I was using, along with the hard helical. I'm thinking that perhaps the vanes were not allowing the arrow to lay flat in the bottom or sides of the track.

 

...My thoughts are, just maybe, the arrow was not laying flat due to the taller fletchings I was using, along with the hard helical. I'm thinking that perhaps the vanes were not allowing the arrow to lay flat in the bottom or sides of the track.

A definite possibility.

 

My Ghost 360 is doing the same thing. I think I see whats doing it. I do not see an easy fix though. When an arrow is loaded the ADF is pushing down on the top of the knock and giving it a see saw effect over the end of the rail. Mine has a effect on accuracy when the tip of the arrow is cocked up off the rail. I was re loading it several times until it sat flat. Now I see an easier way. Its dangerous though. (Make sure you NEVER put your fingers where the string can hit it and never in front of the point.) Load an arrow, take safety off, reload arrow, put safety back on. (Make sure you NEVER put your finger where the string can hit it and never in front of the point.) For this much money, Barnett should come up with a fix. It needs a rail extension that won't interfere with fletching and string release while holding up knock end of arrow. Oh, and I oiled mine up with no effect ?

 

I'm thinking ... unless you're using flat nocks, could be the string too low, grabbing the moon nock pulling the rear of the arrow down into the slot and lifting the broadhead end? This would be particularly possible with snap on nocks, or nocks that were tapered and/or smaller in diameter than the arrow shaft. I saw it on my old Bowtech Stryleforce.

 

Just my findings on the two brands I own.

On the Barnett Brotherhood Bone Collector the arrow sits up off the composite rail a little toward the front of the bow. This Xbow will keep its arrows in a golf ball size group at 40 yards, when I do my part.

On my Ten-Point Turbo GT the arrows lay flat down against the composite rail, and it also shoots golf ball size groups at 40 yards.

My take is as long as the arrow sits the same every time on either of my bows, it will shoot great.

 

I had one Barnett that was enough for me. It exploded when I shot at a buck. It was the 3rd day of the season.

 

The only bows that I’ve owned where the arrow shaft did Not lay flat on the entire rail was on my Barnett Crossbows! My TenPoint, Horton and Excalibur doesn’t have that problem.