You hit on what I believe is one of the biggest issues. The wide axle-to-axle crossbows will benefit long-distance competition shooters but that is about it.

 

Serving material technology is not keeping up with the narrow bows...

 

Huge difference between 12 and 20. 12 is plenty narrow for any stand or blind and you do not have all the S@C wear of the ultra narrow or the rope cocking problems with the hooks pinching. 20 is hard to pack in, clunky in a stand and a no go in a small blind .

 

What is sort of funny about this statement is crossbows have been hunted with for thousands of years and it's been only about 10 years that they started getting so small. It's all about what we get used to.

 

I prefer 12-16 inches when cocked. I feel that is a near perfect compromise between maneuverability and serving life. I feel for all of the new buyers drawn to these narrow designs that have nothing but problems with strings and servings. Less than 500 shots is unacceptable, imo.

 

For me it's worth it. 100% of my hunting is done from the ground using pop up tents and box blinds. Used to use full size Scorpyds, but now use Ravins which are MUCH narrower and easier to maneuver. A lot less risk of a limb hitting the side of a tent/box in a hunting situation. Have no problem with string/cables on my R29 or R10. I take care of my stuff.

 

A narrower crossbow is better in a blind or tree stand but much easier to tilt or cant.
A level bubble installed is a quick fix for tilting or canting prevention.

Bow string and servings: 1)as the draw weight goes up, better material is required.
2)the builder has to increase the tension on the bow string before installing the serving
and then increase the tension on the serving as it is installed. Too many bowstrings out
there with poor quality builds.
3)for the crossbows that shoot 1/2 moon nocks, a second layer of serving in the arrow-
latch area adds additional protection to the bow string. This will only work if the bowstring
and serving were built under enough tension to start with.

Depending on the style of the crossbow: those that do very little shooting, the bow string
and serving may last quite awhile, for others doing lots of shooting, replacement or repair
is required much oftener. Quality lubrication and maintenance plays an important role.

In regards to the manufacturing of the crossbows: a)poor quality control in regards to
the latches not being polished which easily damages the bow string serving. b) too
much downward pressure on the bowstring which causes excessive wear. c)the bow
riser improperly manufactured causing poor alignment which is a major cause of this
excessive downward bowstring pressure. Some crossbow brands and series are worse
than others. Shimming the riser on some crossbows helps while others, it can be a disaster
as it puts too much stress on the limbs, d)the arrow groove on some of the rail type cross
bows is not quite wide enough to let the arrow sit lower in order for the bow string to properly
center in the arrow nock. This causes wear marks on each side of the cock vane on the nock
and if not corrected will move forward into the arrow shaft.

Some of the front mounted riser crossbows, on the riser side of where the cables cross,
the rail-stock tips downward. Does this effect accuracy?? I have some of these crossbows
and my opinion, the arrow, once shot does not have time to tilt down to follow the slope of
the rail-stock in that area.

Wishing you all the best.
Take care.

 

Maybe I have been lucky, but I have over 900 shots on my Viper and I still see no appreciable serving wear and no change in accuracy. I have a little over 100 shots on my Siege, and everything looks brand new. These shorter, narrower crossbows are far handier to sling and carry. They are far better to maneuver in a treestand. I'm done with trying to get a shot at a deer that came in behind me with a wide limb crossbow. If I were a competitive shooter or did a large amount of arrow testing, I might think otherwise about a crossbow for those purposes. I do infrequent shooting after the hunting seasons. I get back into regular practice shooting in the two months before deer season, shooting a half dozen shots at a session a couple of times per week. I also shoot arrows in the 440-460 grain weight range instead of the minimum weight suggested. I am a fanatic concerning lubrication and serving waxing. So far so good with narrow limb crossbows.

 

Not gonna be the limbs hitting but the cams. Some xbows boast narrow , the cam width is another story. My xbow width cocked is almost exactly the same as my size 11.5 boot outside to outside. If there is room for my feet there,s room for my xbow. Getting 1000 or more shots out of my Marty built S@C.

 

I don't remember if my bows are 19.5 or 19.75 inches max width counting the cams at brace. I haven't had any problems in the past 7 or 8 years using them. Narrow might turn my head but it don't keep it turned. If you feel its a plus its a plus.

 

I chased narrow xbows for a while but no longer on that train. Not against it at all but it doesn't move the needle for me anymore. I stalk and or walk a good bit in woods and narrow Xbow never made one bit of difference for me. Yea, I had a Viper. That's a narrow and very nice Xbow. For me limb width doesn't matter that much unless you get super wide then I can see maneuvering challenges up in a tree or in a blind. However, I really don't know. To me, it's a matter of personal preference.

To date best success for string/cable life has been with my past Barnett TS370. Easily get 900 plus shots out of Marty's strings once shims relieved downward bow string pressure. I have a Mission Sub-1 XR and feel it's my holy grail but will own another Barnett Compound Xbow that cocks down to 12" ATA. Their limbs are proven and reliable.

 

Not gonna be popular with the new every year crowd,but reasonably narrow,light,fast,priced is gonna do the job and hold up longer. Ultra anything leads to excessive everything.

 

Cam width (ctc) is THE story IMO. To me, it is MORE IMPORTANT THAN SPEED that most shooters seem to be concerned about. As for string issues, I can take care of that by re-serving and proper maintenance.

 

Yeah ... they're better. I know I like my Ravin R29X better than any previous crossbow I've shot. I'm not a 5,000 arrow target guy and I know a wide Scorpyd brings certain advantages to the table, particularly if you're a target guy or long range hunter/shooter. But in the woods? To me, narrow just feels better, works better in so many ways. I'm sure it's not going to kill any deer I couldn't have killed with my Scorpyd. It's simply easier to deal with transporting, carrying, hauling up into the tree, sitting there with it, and maneuvering it around in tight spaces. It's more huntable; more shooter friendly.

 

Duke,
It's about time you see the light. I'm betting your Scorpyds will be collecting dust after you hunt more with a Ravin. Some of us have been sayin for years that you can't appreciate the attributes of a Ravin until you hunt with one for a while.
After that, the anti is upped to the point where if it can't be easily cocked and decocked while sitting on your stand or in a blind, forget about it. It's all about the integral crank system for us older folks and it's as simple as that.

As far as string and cable life, that's more a function of center serving design and how sharp an angle the string is when the bow is cocked. For instance, you don't see Moon complaining about S&C wear on his R26 because he uses quality prestretched aftermarket strings and the longer set designed for other Ravins.
This is also partly what I choose to shoot the R10 because the string angle is reduced with the shorter 11" draw stroke.

 

No better workout for that r29x than Duke. Doubt anyone will put an xbow thru more than he will in a year. Real world use and abuse not the same as backyard play.

 

My Excal Micro is 22" wide when cocked. I'm a wheelchair user and hunt from ground blinds often. Never once has the width been a limiting factor for me. Can't say the same thing about the old 30" wide one though (36" uncocked). With that one width became a limiting factor when in the blind with another hunter who was running a camera on a tripod. Just had to be aware of where the limb would go to at the shot.

 

I've only been in crossbows a little over a year now. Switched to it as combat injuries, wear and tear, make heavy recoil and vertical bows painful to hunt with. When I went shopping for my first bow it came down to either the Amped or CP400, 3" narrower and 12 ounces weren't worth twice the price then. I've since hiked in a lot of miles with ladder stand, pack, and bow ... climbed dozens of trees, set up a few hasty blinds, and I will say I would pay more $$ for a lighter bow, with a better trigger and scope, but narrower wouldn't matter much to me. Just my inexperienced .02.

 

It's a great topic and one that I see varies in importance based on use preferences and a hunters willingness to do what's needed to support the desired technology.

4 years ago my Nitro was reasonably narrow and served me well. Today my hunting has evolved and my needs are different. The small form factor bows are a big advantage and I appreciate what they offer. I'm also willing to own a press and spare strings and cables so I can do what's necessary on a moments notice to keep these hyper narrow bows working correctly. Maybe technology catches up to extend serving life, but today it lags. The same applies to targets. The shorter arrow bows shooting in excess of 400 fps have issues today. I had some nicely built 16" heavy weight arrows I planned to use for hogs. That 500 gn arrow shooting from my Havoc was still very fast and it sank to within an inch of the fletching, even in a firm part of the target. The drag was so extreme it melted the arrow script and it bonded to the target material. It took micro surgery to extract it from my BidShot Extreme. Removing the script on that set of arrows took only a few minutes but it's another "thing" the typical hunter won't want to deal with.

I like where the technology is taking us but we need the manufacturers to be in concert with ALL the pieces of the puzzle so it's not a hunter's nightmare when they make advancements. Strings, cables, string care products, targets, arrows, nocks, broadheads......... All need attention to keep pace.

Make it happen DPMS!

 

I own a TP Viper and a Mission Sub 1XR. Both are great but I seem to favor the Mission a lot more lately and it’s a touch wider.

 

Yep, and it also depends on your age and physical limitations.
My hunting buddy brought up a friend's R26 for me to install one of my stirrups on the other day and to check the tune. Wow, that little sucker is so light weight and I can imagine a breeze to tote around when hiking into public land. I certainly understand why so many folks like it and if I was a little shorter and less lanky, I'd have to have one.
Everyone has different needs and it's great we have so many choices.
However, sometimes we can't appreciate a feature unless we use it for a while. In my opinion, decocking is one of those features. Once you get accustomed to it, it's like you become addicted and you can't accept anything less on future crossbow purchases.

 

And another hunter that has used a bow that can be decocked has seen the light.

 

I have a r29 raven and an old wide limb exocet Excalibur Love them both for different reasons. Old bow so reliable and simple but slow. The new more finicky but fast. Just like everything else these days!

 

As the title of the thread asks, are the perceived benefits of the super narrow crossbows( less than 10 inches cocked ) that seem to be all of the rage these days actually worth any potential tradeoffs compared to crossbows with a cocked ATA of say 12-20 inches?

One of the often talked about tradeoffs of the very narrow bows are ongoing serving issues which seem to plague these bows.

I field many messages and questions from new crossbow users about string, cables and serving issues. It only seems to be getting worse as the bows become narrower and faster. While some of these issues can be somewhat mitigated through meticulous maintenance, is that kind of maintenance now becoming expected from the end user that just wants to buy a crossbow and go hunting?

My Excal TwinStrike chews through servings like a new puppy teething.
Not impressed.

 

As a long time Excal recurve fan, I didn’t think that Twin Strike bow would be a success.

 

Love the TwinStrike, concept and shooting.
If they had a Kevlar center serving, it'd be a winner.
Maybe I'll get a Boo or Marty string for it next time.

 

You get accustomed to anything. I’ve been shooting an X1 more than anything else this summer. I shot my 400 Micro Suppressor and I kinda thought it was wide at first. Then I picked up my 405 and boy did it seem wide! I looked at my Eclipsed (vortex) and didn’t that seem nasty wide! I have never, ever thought wide when they were current models. Not once! New bow purchasers should give it up and admit that they want what all the cool kids on the block have rather than tell everyone that a narrow bow would be better in a blind or in a tree stand. The truth is that small and narrow is cool but not nearly necessary, especially at the prices that some bows are coming out at and those numbers I consider plundering!

 

hi Dan it’s bill I go by potter on here. Hope u are doing well. Doing well here in pa. Been hunting md already started sept 10.

 

Nope narrow is not and in a few years folks will come to realize why.

The R500 as an example will likely have 350# maybe even stronger limbs than that.

That puts tons of pressure on everything from the nocks and arrows,cuttings and cables, cams, axles, limbs even the barrel and bow riser are stressed to higher levels

So what you are going to see is as the bows age there are going to be increases in bow failures

 

So what? ... For the educated shooter, or high volume target type guys, they know what they're getting into and accept it. If you make the choice to run a dragster, the Honda owner's horrifying thought of rebuilding an engine, is just a normal part of your weekend game. The dragster owner gets enough pleasure out of his hobby to embrace the costs. Besides, probably 95% of crossbow buyers likely don't shoot 20 arrows per year. So realistically how many narrow 400fps-470fps crossbows are going to suffer with your prediction? Axles, bearings, barrels and risers aren't going to wear out just sitting there. Not unless they're criminally under-designed. While crossbow engineers may push the envelope, they're not stupid enough to use cables, strings, axles, risers and limbs that are just guesses. Certainly not when banks of lawyers and bean counters are in the loop. 🤑

It's simply individual choices and "what floats your boat." To the frugal hunter who's shooting a decade old Excalibur the mere thought of a narrow 4k Vapor RS470 heresy. To the Mission owner shooting the 4 door sedan of crossbows the thought of a Ravin's maintenance needs brings on apoplexy. Meantime somebody else is salivating and disappointed the R500E he pre-ordered is behind schedule. 😲 No right & no wrong.

 

I like the wider crossbows but for hunting the narrow crossbows sure do come in handy. I'll hunt anything from my Scorpyd Vents to my Ravins. They all work and have their place.

If I want to keep things quiet I'm not carrying a Ravin.

If I'm forced to set up in a tight area or I need to let my crossbow down before getting in the truck I'm taking a Ravin. Having the extra room in the truck sure is nice.