[Farm Deer]

Hi Everyone,
After rope cocking this bow over 75 times today my arms are about to fall off. I will gather my pics and information together and reply tomorrow. I will say, the light at the end of the tunnel IS NOT a train. I did two very controlled tests to verify my initial thoughts and find this bow performs excellent and proved the root cause of the failure(s) regarding cables.
Sorry but dinner is ready and I'm beat.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Fueled up but knuckles dragging the floor. Shot Head Hunter arrows with factory scope @ 60 yards last few shots with 1" groups. I elected to shoot a safer nock than moons.
Catch up more tomorrow.

 

[Farm Deer]

Tomorrow is another day. Full review to follow.
Good night,
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Good Morning,
I want to start out by saying the following is not a review per say on the bow but rather a controlled test regarding the "cable" issue presented.

I conducted two tests: Agree or Disagree with my findings.
Test One: Straight out of the box, no lubrication applied to either string or cables. Noting that the photo evidence of prior bows I have looked at indicate no presence of lubrication. IMO
Shot the bow 15 times. Pressed the bow due to obvious visual premature wear on the cable(s). The wear was proportional to each cable. I removed and photographed one of the four cables noting the abrasion on the helical wrap area of the cable along with partial separation at one point of the cable. The serving surface was fuzzy with the outside surface showing high abrasion.
Again, this was after 15 shots, dead dry cables out of the box. I then went through my normal pre-lubing of a new set of string and cables, rubbing Trident into the serving of both S&C allowing to penetrate for 15 minutes. I also applied Trident to the helical of the cam along with the through hole for the cables and the groove for the string. I "over lubricated" so the test went from one extreme to the other, lube, no lube. BTW the string did not show any wear in comparison to the cables during this test.

I installed the new S&C set, verified timing and began shooting the bow for test 2.
Before proceeding a few points of interest: 1- I tested the factory out of the box S&C with a special wipe that changes color in the presence of any surface contaminant: silicone, petroleum-based product, distillates. There was ZERO "lubricants" on either the S or C's. Indicating to me that the assembly process of the riser failed to provide any form of lubricant. 2- I tested the cam helical with a material similar to plasti-gauge that is designed to prove sharp edges or surface finish. I wrapped this round material around the helix and pulled it through with no sign of material transfer indicating the surface had no sharp edge(s) and was at minimum a 2B micro finish. * I believe concern was expressed regarding the "V notch" area of the helix. This test proved that the v had zero effect on the surface gauge material. 3- What some may consider sharp, outside the radii of the serving, edges of the helix played no part in the track of the cable path.

Test 2 was shooting the bow consecutively 10 times then again inspection of the replacement lubed S&C installed.
At not interval inspection did the S or C show any sign of premature wear or abrasion up to 55 shots.
Photo evidence below:

Yes! It is a mess but wanted to insure one extreme to the other. And NO, I would not normally leave all this excess on the cams.

Make note on the serving as it came through the cam. I would machine slightly more radii on the hole for a more proportional relief. However at least it is a radius rather a counter sink with corners. Also note lower right the amount of Trident in the string groove.

All cables remained pristine after 55 shots. You can see the individual serving wraps on the entire cable. no abrasion or severing.
I will continue to shoot without additional lubrication to prove the maximum number of shots before wear is present. 100, 250, 500, 750,,,,,, Will not know until I get there.
Another note: In the one video the shooter stated the difficulty in "pushing" the sled off the string when cocked. I experienced the same condition on a dry string. Once I lubricated the entire area of the serving that touched the sled, the resistance to remove, "push", the sled dropped by 50%.

Take from this what you will. My takeaway is, and have already done so, sharing with Barnett the fact they need to introduce a robust lubrication process on the assembly of the bows. And before it's said, not to the extreme that I did for this test. The Op's manager at Barnett stated yesterday that they are now inspecting every bow prior to shipping rather their standard AQL level.
Based on the bow I received and tested, I would not hesitate to invest in this bow. I will share all the bells and whistles (along with my dislikes) over the next week after shooting >500 times.
I will say the dislikes are minimal at this point however it's like a marriage, relationships grow or decline over time. I did shoot my final 5 shots at 60 yards with the factory optics, Head hunter arrows, not indexed, with Versa-Nocks, 100 grain tips and was pleased with a 1" grouping out of a tripod. Trigger was,,,,,,, well, incredibly smooth with zero creep. Balance when shouldering was also impressive, darn close to a reverse limb design.

I will be moving my ATN Optics from my Excal 380 over to the Raptor for more detailed ballistic information.

In hopes this provides some interesting findings/information and take from it what you will. "Minds are like parachutes, they only work if they open."
More to come as the shot counter increases.
have a great day,
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Awesome work! In your opinion which crossbow is better the Hyper Raptor or the 430x? Also, did Barnett send this crossbow to you for testing or did you but this from a retailer or archery shop? Looking forward to see how the S&C's hold up as you put more bolts down range!

I bought his Bow from Barnett directly. They did supply additional arrows at no cost however I paid for the bow so no person could ever claim my information or review was "bought". Were they willing to send at no cost to me? YES. I am the one that said NO thank you. I will Gladley pay for the bow to avoid any conflict of interest. Thats how I roll. Anyone believing different can just change the channel if they Like, I don't care. I'm an anal engineer that has the knowledge and tools to prove or disprove root cause on this specific bow at this time.

One item I did experience: I have shot and tested various Mission bows along with several KI X cam bows. Both manufactures did a great job with the left off to produce a very smooth acceleration that equates into lower shock on the string release. What I found interesting cocking the Raptor was near zero left off however it was very smooth with very little shock. I do believe the string stops integrated into the Halo has some affect on the reduced shock.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

So how does the Hyper Raptor compare to the Centerpoint 430x? If you were to only own one of them, which would it be and why?

Cannot provide accuracy on your question until I shoot the Raptor much more.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Thanks George for your hard work I for greatly appreciate it your knowledge dedication to everyone out here to get the facts love your parachute reference I was actually a rigger in the Air Force & that was a joke if don’t work bring it back I’ll give you another one. Lol again thank you.

Thank you for the kind words. As a line in a movie: "It doesn't matter what I think, it's what I can prove" My wife tells me often: " Not everything is black and white",,,,, as I walk away!
Another good one is; "The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have"
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Oh ok no problem. I look forward to seeing more of your posts regarding the Hyper Raptor. Thanks for all your hard work!

I do like the 430. As with any bow there are some personal perspectives, likes/dislikes. I shoot out to 100 yards and need a good trigger to do so accurately. The CP Wrath 430 trigger to me is a hunting trigger and by no means is comparable to the trigger tech on the Raptor that I consider a marksman grade trigger.
Hope this helps.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

I have heard the same things from others as well. I am hopeful that Barnett will get this S&C fraying issue sorted out in production soon with the Hyper Raptor as I truly want to buy one.

At this point anyone buying a Raptor needs to take the riser and lube every bit of the S&C's before even mounting it. Friction will kill any cable on any brand bow if not maintained with lube. I will be speaking again with Barnett regarding this.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Thanks very much, George, for all the testing and info sharing. Glad you got the thread back on track and away from some unsettling sidebar posts.

Hi Joe,
I tend to ignore the sidebar posts. I'm pretty simple, this forum should be about helping others looking for guidance and appropriate support. There is not one manufacture that builds the "perfect" bow regardless of brand. I have worked with some of the "big boys" out there that have issues on very high end/high cost bows. It's going to happen with the best engineers and intentions. I don't believe any manufacture sits back and says, "Oh, the hell with it, ship it". Do I believe ALL manufactures need to take final design/assembly products and test them more rigorously? You bet.

So, lessons learned along the way and sometimes those less than acceptable lessons fall into the hands of the consumer. Deadlines, economics have a great part of what we experience at times. However, providing the manufactures with feedback, providing they're not arrogant, accurate information can help them help us. And then you have the legal side where companies cannot own publicly product defects in fear of lawsuits.

My main focus is to help however I can, period.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

I don't even own a crossbow yet and I went ahead and ordered some Trident when I first joined Crossbow Nation because I was hearing it was the go to stuff to use.

I respect the fact that you are reading and absorbing the knowledge on CBN rather running out and buying a crossbow with little or no knowledge base.
Good for you!
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

@Farm Deer did you run it through the chrono yet?

No Sir, my focus was on the cam/cable issue. Let me say that I am NOT a speed freak. Never have known a deer to jump a string on me with bows in the 250 fps range (many years ago).
Reliability is compromised when we begin to push the outside edge of the envelope. I have and always will say that 420 FPS is my limit based on what I know of current materials available.
Thats not to say that someone that shoots minimal number of shots per year cannot enjoy one of the supersonic bows. Someone like me, > 2,000 shots/yr, I'll stick within a speed that provides long term reliability over a owning a dragster! IMHO

I look at low shock, excellent trigger (match grade) and "feel" when I shoulder the bow. My Micro 380 for example with 428 grain arrows is "slow" in comparison to most available compounds. What's the speed? I haven't a clue. What I do know is, bet a beer on hitting a BE @ 80 yards and I would think I'll be enjoying the beer! Thats what makes this industry so unique is we get a massive choice on what we "want". compound, reverse limb, recurve.........

I traveled down the road of supersonic bows and I didn't care for it.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

No Sir, my focus was on the cam/cable issue. Let me say that I am NOT a speed freak. Never have known a deer to jump a string on me with bows in the 250 fps range (many years ago).
Reliability is compromised when we begin to push the outside edge of the envelope. I have and always will say that 420 FPS is my limit based on what I know of current materials available.
Thats not to say that someone that shoots minimal number of shots per year cannot enjoy one of the supersonic bows. Someone like me, > 2,000 shots/yr, I'll stick within a speed that provides long term reliability over a owning a dragster! IMHO

I look at low shock, excellent trigger (match grade) and "feel" when I shoulder the bow. My Micro 380 for example with 428 grain arrows is "slow" in comparison to most available compounds. What's the speed? I haven't a clue. What I do know is, bet a beer on hitting a BE @ 80 yards and I would think I'll be enjoying the beer! Thats what makes this industry so unique is we get a massive choice on what we "want". compound, reverse limb, recurve.........

I traveled down the road of supersonic bows and I didn't care for it.
FD

Sorry Chris, I rambled on. (I'm old)
To answer your question, when I mount the ATN the ballistic profile will provide the speed and drop at every yardage. As you look in the optic after range finding the target, the ballistic calculator displays the vertical drop which you can then use a chart to tell you true speed at that yardage. Checking speed 2 ' in front of a bow does not provide accurate velocity down range due to drag coefficients in the arrow: vanes, tip type, shaft diameter and L/D (length over diameter). The ATN provides that information at every yardage.
I'll get you the numbers once I shoot more.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

George, what is the arrow grain weight setup? 22" Head Hunters?

Hi Tom,
TBA along with the Hyper arrows also. I'm heading out here shortly to toss some arrows down range.
Thanks,
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Shot to a total count of 100. Every thing looks perfect. Shot Hunter arrows. Tomorrow is the day to shoot with the ATN and both flavors of arrows with FPS data. 60 yards tonight with a boring 1" groups. Darn near a Robin hood.
So far, so good.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Gotta love it. I numbered the arrows last night, 6 Hunters and 6 Hyper flight. Pulled my scale out to weigh them and nothing,,,,, dead as a door nail. I was really disappointed after planning the entire day to shoot and record the data. Jumped on Amazon and ordered one. Low and behold the scale was sitting on my porch before I got my butt out of bed this morning. That is incredible service. We are on schedule!!!!

 

[Farm Deer]

i would only be intrested in this bow with the normal spinal tap or bee arrow size.

Would shoot either. Hunters are standard .346" diameter.

 

[Farm Deer]

And the cam spindle where the cables wrap around when cocked. Critical!!! Farm Deer can correct if I'm wrong.

View attachment 266877

YES. First initial application should be on ALL contact points (maybe not to the degree I did for illustration) but easy to wipe excess off.
I did receive some messages stating/questioning the need to lube the cables too???? My answer was YES. String and cables at all contact points is STANDARD and should be completed often. New xbow owners need to be aware of this primary maintenance requirement.
FD

 

[Farm Deer]

Factory Arrows with 100 grain tips.
Hyper flight:

Hunter: