[Kisermn11]

Good Morning,
I want to start out by saying the following is not a review per say on the bow but rather a controlled test regarding the "cable" issue presented.

I conducted two tests: Agree or Disagree with my findings.
Test One: Straight out of the box, no lubrication applied to either string or cables. Noting that the photo evidence of prior bows I have looked at indicate no presence of lubrication. IMO
Shot the bow 15 times. Pressed the bow due to obvious visual premature wear on the cable(s). The wear was proportional to each cable. I removed and photographed one of the four cables noting the abrasion on the helical wrap area of the cable along with partial separation at one point of the cable. The serving surface was fuzzy with the outside surface showing high abrasion.
Again, this was after 15 shots, dead dry cables out of the box. I then went through my normal pre-lubing of a new set of string and cables, rubbing Trident into the serving of both S&C allowing to penetrate for 15 minutes. I also applied Trident to the helical of the cam along with the through hole for the cables and the groove for the string. I "over lubricated" so the test went from one extreme to the other, lube, no lube. BTW the string did not show any wear in comparison to the cables during this test.
View attachment 266796
View attachment 266797

I installed the new S&C set, verified timing and began shooting the bow for test 2.
Before proceeding a few points of interest: 1- I tested the factory out of the box S&C with a special wipe that changes color in the presence of any surface contaminant: silicone, petroleum-based product, distillates. There was ZERO "lubricants" on either the S or C's. Indicating to me that the assembly process of the riser failed to provide any form of lubricant. 2- I tested the cam helical with a material similar to plasti-gauge that is designed to prove sharp edges or surface finish. I wrapped this round material around the helix and pulled it through with no sign of material transfer indicating the surface had no sharp edge(s) and was at minimum a 2B micro finish. * I believe concern was expressed regarding the "V notch" area of the helix. This test proved that the v had zero effect on the surface gauge material. 3- What some may consider sharp, outside the radii of the serving, edges of the helix played no part in the track of the cable path.

Test 2 was shooting the bow consecutively 10 times then again inspection of the replacement lubed S&C installed.
At not interval inspection did the S or C show any sign of premature wear or abrasion up to 55 shots.
Photo evidence below:
View attachment 266799

Yes! It is a mess but wanted to insure one extreme to the other. And NO, I would not normally leave all this excess on the cams.
View attachment 266800

Make note on the serving as it came through the cam. I would machine slightly more radii on the hole for a more proportional relief. However at least it is a radius rather a counter sink with corners. Also note lower right the amount of Trident in the string groove.
View attachment 266801

All cables remained pristine after 55 shots. You can see the individual serving wraps on the entire cable. no abrasion or severing.
I will continue to shoot without additional lubrication to prove the maximum number of shots before wear is present. 100, 250, 500, 750,,,,,, Will not know until I get there.
Another note: In the one video the shooter stated the difficulty in "pushing" the sled off the string when cocked. I experienced the same condition on a dry string. Once I lubricated the entire area of the serving that touched the sled, the resistance to remove, "push", the sled dropped by 50%.

Take from this what you will. My takeaway is, and have already done so, sharing with Barnett the fact they need to introduce a robust lubrication process on the assembly of the bows. And before it's said, not to the extreme that I did for this test. The Op's manager at Barnett stated yesterday that they are now inspecting every bow prior to shipping rather their standard AQL level.
Based on the bow I received and tested, I would not hesitate to invest in this bow. I will share all the bells and whistles (along with my dislikes) over the next week after shooting >500 times.
I will say the dislikes are minimal at this point however it's like a marriage, relationships grow or decline over time. I did shoot my final 5 shots at 60 yards with the factory optics, Head hunter arrows, not indexed, with Versa-Nocks, 100 grain tips and was pleased with a 1" grouping out of a tripod. Trigger was,,,,,,, well, incredibly smooth with zero creep. Balance when shouldering was also impressive, darn close to a reverse limb design.

I will be moving my ATN Optics from my Excal 380 over to the Raptor for more detailed ballistic information.
View attachment 266806

In hopes this provides some interesting findings/information and take from it what you will. "Minds are like parachutes, they only work if they open."
More to come as the shot counter increases.
have a great day,
FD

Awesome work! In your opinion which crossbow is better the Hyper Raptor or the 430x? Also, did Barnett send this crossbow to you for testing or did you buy this from a retailer or archery shop? Looking forward to see how the S&C's hold up as you put more bolts down range!

 

[Kisermn11]

I bought his Bow from Barnett directly. They did supply additional arrows at no cost however I paid for the bow so no person could ever claim my information or review was "bought". Were they willing to send at no cost to me? YES. I am the one that said NO thank you. I will Gladley pay for the bow to avoid any conflict of interest. Thats how I roll. Anyone believing different can just change the channel if they Like, I don't care. I'm an anal engineer that has the knowledge and tools to prove or disprove root cause on this specific bow at this time.

One item I did experience: I have shot and tested various Mission bows along with several KI X cam bows. Both manufactures did a great job with the left off to produce a very smooth acceleration that equates into lower shock on the string release. What I found interesting cocking the Raptor was near zero left off however it was very smooth with very little shock. I do believe the string stops integrated into the Halo has some affect on the reduced shock.
FD

So how does the Hyper Raptor compare to the Centerpoint 430x? If you were to only own one of them, which would it be and why?

 

[Kisermn11]

Cannot provide accuracy on your question until I shoot the Raptor much more.
FD

Oh ok no problem. I look forward to seeing more of your posts regarding the Hyper Raptor. Thanks for all your hard work!

 

[Kisermn11]

I do like the 430. As with any bow there are some personal perspectives, likes/dislikes. I shoot out to 100 yards and need a good trigger to do so accurately. The CP Wrath 430 trigger to me is a hunting trigger and by no means is comparable to the trigger tech on the Raptor that I consider a marksman grade trigger.
Hope this helps.
FD

I have heard the same things from others as well. I am hopeful that Barnett will get this S&C fraying issue sorted out in production soon with the Hyper Raptor as I truly want to buy one.

 

[Kisermn11]

At this point anyone buying a Raptor needs to take the riser and lube every bit of the S&C's before even mounting it. Friction will kill any cable on any brand bow if not maintained with lube. I will be speaking again with Barnett regarding this.
FD

Ok sounds great. I thought applying Lube to the servings on a crossbow was not typically needed am I wrong?

 

[Kisermn11]

I ordered trident last night never heard of till joined the nation just used the wax stuff like came with raptor but again I’m a complete rookie compared to most of you guys and parachute is and here to learn & have few laughs in the process

I don't even own a crossbow yet and I went ahead and ordered some Trident when I first joined Crossbow Nation because I was hearing it was the go to stuff to use.

 

[Kisermn11]

I respect the fact that you are reading and absorbing the knowledge on CBN rather running out and buying a crossbow with little or no knowledge base.
Good for you!
FD

Thats how I am with most all my big purchases and hobbies I am involved in. I am OCD and anal about my stuff and want to make sure I don't purchase something and regret it because I didn't think through it entirely.

 

[Kisermn11]

And the cam spindle where the cables wrap around when cocked. Critical!!! Farm Deer can correct if I'm wrong.

View attachment 266877

Please don't take me wrong as I am very much a newb to crossbows but this seems un-natural and very excessive to have to apply this much lube to a crossbow. I am not sure I am very interested in the Hyper Raptor if I have to apply this much lube to a brand new crossbow.

 

[Kisermn11]

I clearly stated several times that I went excessive for illustration purposes. You are correct that you may not desire ANY compound bow out there if you need to lubricate. This is NOT a requirement of the Raptor only. All compound bows require frequent lube maintenance. You may want to look at a recurve rather a compound. Make no mistake, if you buy a compound bow, regardless of brand and you do not complete lube maintenance then you will have premature S&C failures.

I understand lubrication of the S&C's is necessary, but I have never heard of the need to add lube to the area below the cam where the string wraps around the area below the cam. Please don't take me wrong bringing this up as I am just trying to learn as much as possible so I can make an informed decision on which crossbow will be right for me.

 

[Kisermn11]

Here is a pic of normal. Because the S&C's were dead dry from the factory one must insure complete saturation on all areas. Don't shoot the messenger.
View attachment 266912

Definitely not trying to shoot the messenger and I truly appreciate all of your hard work and help. I am just trying to understand how much lube and where to put it is acceptable to maintain this crossbow and the S&C's.

 

[Kisermn11]

Now this is funny......
I decided to mount a speed rated scope before the ATN for the reason not everyone needs or maybe cannot afford a $900.00 optic. Although the stock scope is crystal clear I wanted to setup a speed scope and test prior to the ATN. I have qualified the speed scope with my ATN to be within +-2 FPS at all ranges.

Yes I read the articles of much higher FPS but figured that was a hot bow supplied! Right? No, Wrong!!!! Here's where things get a bit funny.
Set the speed ring to 400 FPS (knowing past history that bows are over rated). I zeroed at 20 yards, dead BE. Being a bit cocky I moved back to 80 (which I shoot all the time). Verified range, safety off, squeezed the trigger as I watched through the scope the arrow went over the top right aim point, missing the target high and into the corn field 30 or so yards!
Photo evidence of my arrogance below:
View attachment 266915

I killed a damn corn stalk, dead center.
I rethought what others shared regarding the article mentioning higher FPS performance. I made several adjustments to the speed dial and after several shots at 60 I stepped again back to 80.

Here is at 60 with the speed dial set at 420
View attachment 266916

At 80
View attachment 266917

The bow is just a bit hot. Lessons learned. ATN next.
FD

Very Impressive! Which speedring scope did you use in this test?

 

[Kisermn11]

View attachment 266943

Excal Overwatch It's "okay". Field of view isn't to my liking.

How do you like the scope that comes with the Hyper Raptor? Do you think it needs an upgraded speed scope?

 

[Kisermn11]

Okay Folks, spoke with Barnett engineering and the operations manager in a conference call. Spoke for an hour and a half regarding all the items that have been discussed here. The engineer and I really connected on the Raptor and the recommendations I have made. Refreshing to know they were not "offended" by having constructive criticism offered.
I highlighted the following:

Factory pre-lube of cables and string​

Trigger safety lever revision (stick out)​

Adjust the string center serving to be 7-1/4" wide verses 4-7/8" so the sled does not touch the string thread​

Increase engagement of the fold down grip​

Process to adjust cable centerline as I described earlier​

Issue of shooting moon nocks many times and then the capture nock not setting​

Improving specific instructions for maintenance​

Barnett would like me to sign a mutual NDA to further more detailed proprietary information and designing of corrective actions. At this point I feel comfortable working with them due to their sincere open minded approach to listen. Regardless of what anybody may think, I offer my services for zero compensation or products past consumables for testing purposes. I really like the fact they are laid back and realize new products need to be shot hell out of by an independent that doesn't have a penny in the game. I also made it perfectly clear that I will not be a backer unless the product deserves the accolades. Hang on, they are forward thinking and dedicated to make improvements as necessary.

Working with Perry24 on custom S&C set so members have a reliable member to reach out to for replacements.

I extend my thank you to all members for trusting the information provided to eliminate some of the perceived issues. Long road in a short period of time,,,, what a journey!
FD

@Farm Deer in your honest opinion, how does the new Hyper Raptor compare to the Wrath 430x? I can get a new 430x right now for like $360 with a $100 rebate from Centerpoint and I am just trying to decide if I should go ahead and get it and give Barnett some time to make these changes to the Hyper Raptor in production before buying one. Thanks again for all of your hard work!

 

[Kisermn11]

$360.00 for a wrath is a steal. Everyone needs a backup anyway.

Sadly, I don't have enough money to own two crossbows lol. If I purchase this Wrath 430x then I will still need to buy a better scope for it, better bolts, possible trigger job by Rich and a case for it so I will still be spending around $600 when all that is purchased which leaves no money for the Hyper Raptor.

 

[Kisermn11]

This year, but there is always next year.

Good point! I have just heard Centerpoint customer service isn't the best and so I am a little worried that if I have any issue with it this season that I won't be able to use it if they take forever to help me out.

 

[Kisermn11]

@Kisermn11 I have never had a problem with Centerpoint or Ravin customer service. I had a wrath, it is a very nice crossbow expecially for the money. I had ZERO issues with my wrath and I would buy another in a heart beat. The trigger is not super crips/clean but its not horrible either - i have shot MUCH worse. To me it was not bad enough to have the trigger job done. You do not have to shoot proprietary arrows either which is a plus.

@christopher ok cool thanks for your help on this. Everytime I have had a few questions and used the Live Chat feature on the Centerpoint website they have been very responsive and helpful. I also really like the foldable stirrup that comes with the 430 & 430x, I could see that being super helpful to use as a built in front rest to steady your shot in the stand or while practicing.

 

[Kisermn11]

@Huntersthompson I'm sure the TriggerTech trigger is awesome and to be honest if Barnett had the Hyper Raptor available to purchase right now or very soon on their website then I would probably just go with the Hyper Raptor. I don't understand why the release of this xbow has been so slow and its taken so long for Barnett to sell them directly. I have a 30% coupon to use towards a new Barnett xbow on their website so that's why I am waiting to purchase it from them directly.

 

[Kisermn11]

Check Dunham Sports. Thats where I found 3 Raptors at one store and Tom found his also. They are out there, just not easy to google unless you know where to look.
I think Tom bought his for mid 500's with a coupon. Tom?

I already have a 30% off coupon to use on Barnett's website but thats the problem, it has to be used with them and won't work through any other retailer.

 

[Kisermn11]

Let me make a call and see what they say. I'll get back to you.....
FD

@Farm Deer awesome! Thanks! If anyone can get answers from Barnett its you

 

[Kisermn11]

George, @ shot 275 how many times have you lubricated the cam hole/spindle and cables to date? Can you break this down/ as a best practice?

To also build onto that question. Do I need to own a bow press to own this crossbow? How do you lubricate the cam hole/spindle and underneath where the strings rub against the spindle without owning a bow press?