I just read that any manufacturer can produce a fantastic slow bow…..so what does everyone consider a slow bow to be? Under 300?……250?
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frederick d. be
Joined
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95 Posts
SINCE this was brought up from "the basement"........pardon my addition (or not).
A LOT of it too is just the old "eye of the beholder".
350fps to someone used to from 160fps trad bows up to 250fps compounds is FAAAAAAAAAAAST!
For those who've been in the Xbow hunting game for years? Meh........"that's ok......but not really FAST.
ODDS ARE..... within those two classes of crossbow hunters (and those in-between) there is an entire world of differing trajectory requirements that are self imposed due to just HOW MUCH trajectory they are "comfortable with".
While we look at SPEED and talk about speed, it's the trajectory we EACH get with OUR choice of arrow weight that is the deciding factor at the end of the day...is it not?
THAT>>>>>IMHO, is what it's ALL about.
With a crossbow of today's manufacture.......FORGET about KE and Momentum. Holy Hannah!
Let me point something out, if you would.
Discuss if if you wish but numbers do NOT LIE. There is nothing to discuss.
The KE and M of today's crossbows make "being concerned" about the.......POINTLESS.
What? You've had arrows BOUNCE OFF?
I've watched Rich and "Bungie" shoot through shoulder blades on youtube.....bet you have too. Every time I see "avoiding shoulder blades" discussed........I just shake my head. NOT the BEST area to AIM at but......its not like it's a "forbidden area" to a crossbow. The arrow WILL penetrate........and you know it.
We've just been "programmed" for most our lives to avoid the shoulder of an animal when shooting arrows with LESS energy behind them and no one seems to be willing to step up and say BULLCRAP.
All, I'm sure are familiar with Doc Ashby's "Bone Threshold" study and test results.
While I'm SURE I may have missed a couple things reading it AND discussing it with Doc swapping emails AND on the phone.....I don't think I missed much.
The single thing a lot overlook is that Doc's test was with a 40lb longbow and he determined a 650grain arrow WOULD penetrate animal bone tissue (thickness tests were much to be desired) BUT........what was the MOMENTUM of said bow arrow setup? Give the speed of that arrow any REASONALBLE amount you wish (150fps-?) and calculate the M and then calculate YOUR setup's M.
Even if you're VERY generous with the speed of that longbow.....YOUR crossbow/arrow setup provides WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY past the momentum of that which he tested.
YES he had 7 other conditions that "must be met" for 100 percent bone penetration, all which COULD be met with a crossbow arrow...if you wished (but is not necessary AT ALL due to the EXCESSIVE momentum your setup provides).
You can go ahead and ban me now. It's ok.
I won't die.
It's still the truth. Like it or not, a deer is a "four wheel drive" critter.
Take out the front wheel drive.....and how far / fast it gonna go? (not)
Seems cruel? It's not.
I've shot several with recurves and heavy arrows. Recovery is less than 30 yards.
God Bless and if I get banned. It's been a trip!
Gramps
A LOT of it too is just the old "eye of the beholder".
350fps to someone used to from 160fps trad bows up to 250fps compounds is FAAAAAAAAAAAST!
For those who've been in the Xbow hunting game for years? Meh........"that's ok......but not really FAST.
ODDS ARE..... within those two classes of crossbow hunters (and those in-between) there is an entire world of differing trajectory requirements that are self imposed due to just HOW MUCH trajectory they are "comfortable with".
While we look at SPEED and talk about speed, it's the trajectory we EACH get with OUR choice of arrow weight that is the deciding factor at the end of the day...is it not?
THAT>>>>>IMHO, is what it's ALL about.
With a crossbow of today's manufacture.......FORGET about KE and Momentum. Holy Hannah!
Let me point something out, if you would.
Discuss if if you wish but numbers do NOT LIE. There is nothing to discuss.
The KE and M of today's crossbows make "being concerned" about the.......POINTLESS.
What? You've had arrows BOUNCE OFF?
I've watched Rich and "Bungie" shoot through shoulder blades on youtube.....bet you have too. Every time I see "avoiding shoulder blades" discussed........I just shake my head. NOT the BEST area to AIM at but......its not like it's a "forbidden area" to a crossbow. The arrow WILL penetrate........and you know it.
We've just been "programmed" for most our lives to avoid the shoulder of an animal when shooting arrows with LESS energy behind them and no one seems to be willing to step up and say BULLCRAP.
All, I'm sure are familiar with Doc Ashby's "Bone Threshold" study and test results.
While I'm SURE I may have missed a couple things reading it AND discussing it with Doc swapping emails AND on the phone.....I don't think I missed much.
The single thing a lot overlook is that Doc's test was with a 40lb longbow and he determined a 650grain arrow WOULD penetrate animal bone tissue (thickness tests were much to be desired) BUT........what was the MOMENTUM of said bow arrow setup? Give the speed of that arrow any REASONALBLE amount you wish (150fps-?) and calculate the M and then calculate YOUR setup's M.
Even if you're VERY generous with the speed of that longbow.....YOUR crossbow/arrow setup provides WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY past the momentum of that which he tested.
YES he had 7 other conditions that "must be met" for 100 percent bone penetration, all which COULD be met with a crossbow arrow...if you wished (but is not necessary AT ALL due to the EXCESSIVE momentum your setup provides).
You can go ahead and ban me now. It's ok.
I won't die.
It's still the truth. Like it or not, a deer is a "four wheel drive" critter.
Take out the front wheel drive.....and how far / fast it gonna go? (not)
Seems cruel? It's not.
I've shot several with recurves and heavy arrows. Recovery is less than 30 yards.
God Bless and if I get banned. It's been a trip!
Gramps
Joined
·
95 Posts
No need to rethink a thing. Ive done it too many times, seen it done too many times and handled dozens and dozens in my process shop over a span of 17 years.......back when "we couldnt do it".
WAY before crossbow speeds of today.
I'm NOT saying its a good idea to TARGET the shoulder but if the shoulder is between the lungs and the shooter.......(mostly elevated situation)......NO problem.
Dont agree? Dont do it. No problem
My opinion. I'm not telling anyone to do or not do a single thing. I'm stating MY opinion and what I have done, SUCCESSFULLY....with WAY less energy and will do again, if needed. I AM stating the numbers that SUPPORT why I feel it works though.
I'm NOT qualified to tell anyone what to shoot at or not.
Neither is anyone else.
FWIW.......I was NOT referring to mechanical broadheads in my posts on this subject. Ive NOT shot them at ANY bone, EVER......and wouldn't. MY choice.
Gramps
WAY before crossbow speeds of today.
I'm NOT saying its a good idea to TARGET the shoulder but if the shoulder is between the lungs and the shooter.......(mostly elevated situation)......NO problem.
Dont agree? Dont do it. No problem
My opinion. I'm not telling anyone to do or not do a single thing. I'm stating MY opinion and what I have done, SUCCESSFULLY....with WAY less energy and will do again, if needed. I AM stating the numbers that SUPPORT why I feel it works though.
I'm NOT qualified to tell anyone what to shoot at or not.
Neither is anyone else.
FWIW.......I was NOT referring to mechanical broadheads in my posts on this subject. Ive NOT shot them at ANY bone, EVER......and wouldn't. MY choice.
Gramps
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