Agree 100%. I am very new to crossbows but it only makes sense to me to not push your limbs, string and cables to the limits. My bow came with 410 grains bolts including the tip. I immediately went to a 468 grain bolt with 125 grain tips and 19% FOC. I don’t have a chrono but the speed ring on my scope is at 365. No idea how accurate that is?

 

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Agree with all the above. IMO, shooting a well tuned crossbow that is capable of producing precision accuracy is paramount to the arrows being shot.
As in my signature, "Fast is fine, Accuracy Kills" is what I live by. If your equipment will propel a 500 grain arrow at >325 fps and have precision accuracy, you're golden. Same holds true for a 435 grain arrow at >425 fps.

Both arrow setups are lethal with PRECISION accuracy.

 

IMO, a great article about KE and momentum.

Slugs and how to build the best hunting arrow

Working as a bow technician and technical expert at Lancaster Archery Supply’s pro shop and showroom, I found that the majority of the customers were bow hunters. Every day I was being asked for ad…

understandingarchery.wordpress.com

 

Interesting article, although it deals more directly with vertical bows instead of crossbows. I usually set as my goal .7 slugs of momentum. For the crossbow shooter, that means an arrow between 450 and 480 grains and a velocity of 350 fps or a bit higher. Use the Arrow Weight Change graph on this site: http://www.gdrinc.com/OGH/calculators/ Rich Wilson of Death By Bunjie and our own Grumpy Old Hunter have worked out all these useful charts and graphs that any of us can use. I publicly send them a big thank you......

 

i have found, just from my field results, a heavier arrow tends to be more stable in long range situations, especially with winds, i hunt mainly up near the pandhandle in texas, were seeing 20-30mphs daily , a lighter arrow tends to sway a little

 

Since I started shooting the 500 grain zombies in my Excaliburs, I've not used anything else except for some custom made switchblades for the Rev x. It also cuts some of the vibration noise down as well when you shoot.

 

All else ... being equal, I'll take the faster arrow 100% of the time. Momentum means nothing when you have 6 times the penetration needed to pass through an animal. Thereafter "trajectory" rules the equation.

 

All else ... being equal, I'll take the faster arrow 100% of the time. Momentum means nothing when you have 6 times the penetration needed to pass through an animal. Thereafter "trajectory" rules the equation.
View attachment 311866 View attachment 311867

I can see your point......but velocity comes at a cost. The higher the speed of a crossbow, the more likely it is to be louder, greater vibration, and the more stress you place on the limbs, cables, and string. I still prefer to increase mass and strike a balance with speed, while reaping the benefits of less mechanical stress. My trusty Oracle X removes trajectory from the discussion. If a shooter prefers a traditional scope and wants speed to reduce guessing at holdover, go for it.......but be prepared to more likely pay the repair/maintenance piper down the road.

 

Ive always preferred a heavy arrow, doesn't matter the bow, recurve/compound/crossbow i like heavier broadheads, always shoot better down range, and they are quieter arrow too when its incoming to the target

 

When I saw this thread, I knew Duke would be along sooner or later. Surprised he didn’t post the meme with the Corvette and the Corolla.

 

He does have a great deal of experience on whitetails. He uses what works for him, always a good idea.

 

Why use ... a mortar or a howitzer when you can use a gun?

 

Not to derail her but Duke have you kept count over the years with your kills? I’m sure it’s more than a lot of hunters have even seen in the woods.

 

Deer control is not quite the same as hunting. Definitely required in many areas, and someone has to do it. I remember some years back, locally, a bunch of nuts wanted the game department to dart the deer and inject them with birth control drugs. Some people have no clue. I had a student once who told me that she got upset when someone cut down a tree with a chainsaw, because trees have feelings too. Geez.....
I would imagine it takes some forethought to be as unobtrusive and yet efficient as possible. Plus the harvested venison goes to a great cause. It presents a unique opportunity to test equipment. Duke, do you have to field dress those deer off-site, or do participating game processors do that for you? Most importantly, can you deduct the cost of your equipment as a business expense? That would be nice!

 

Not to derail her but Duke have you kept count over the years with your kills? I’m sure it’s more than a lot of hunters have even seen in the woods.

Deer control is not quite the same as hunting. Definitely required in many areas, and someone has to do it. I remember some years back, locally, a bunch of nuts wanted the game department to dart the deer and inject them with birth control drugs. Some people have no clue. I had a student once who told me that she got upset when someone cut down a tree with a chainsaw, because trees have feelings too. Geez.....
I would imagine it takes some forethought to be as unobtrusive and yet efficient as possible. Plus the harvested venison goes to a great cause. It presents a unique opportunity to test equipment. Duke, do you have to field dress those deer off-site, or do participating game processors do that for you? Most importantly, can you deduct the cost of your equipment as a business expense? That would be nice!

I don't ... keep count on how many deer I've killed. Somewhere between 500 and a thousand would be my guess.

Deer Control isn't what recreational hunters envision it to be. Many components are the same as recreational hunting, but it's ten times more complicated to do it right. Rec hunters think it's easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

What the tree huggers don't realize is that injecting birth control was a dismal failure because not only did it traumatize the deer to a degree, it also wasn't permanent. If I recall it wore off in 3 or 4 years.

Sometimes I can gut on site, sometimes I can gut on site and bag the entrails, sometimes they have to be gutted off site at a predetermined location, sometimes I have to load them and deliver them off site and someone else guts them, once in a while the butcher guts them, and best of all is when I kill them and a second scrub team picks them up and does all the gutting work themselves because my time behind the rifle is more valuable.

 

And who pays for all that?

 

Depends ... on the situation. Whether it's a professional project or just a volunteer management program.

 

I tested from 400 -500 gn. 450 was consistently the most accurate. I shoot 430-450 now depending on the xbow.

 

All else ... being equal, I'll take the faster arrow 100% of the time. Momentum means nothing when you have 6 times the penetration needed to pass through an animal. Thereafter "trajectory" rules the equation.
View attachment 311866 View attachment 311867

All else ... being equal, I'll take the faster arrow 100% of the time. Momentum means nothing when you have 6 times the penetration needed to pass through an animal. Thereafter "trajectory" rules the equation.
View attachment 311866 View attachment 311867

There is one thing that is better than speed, (more speed)!

 

 

You could spend all night debating this subject but the end result boils down to one thing bow......efficiency.

So in the end I tell people they need a real weight hunting arrow.
400 to 480 grains covers all bows made right now i.m.o. no reason for lighter or heavier. Something lacking someplace
if your out side this parameter or maybe an extrema condition exist like noted below.

Need to kill water buffalo............
Bow is really not tunable.
I shoot 3" cut fixxed head.
I prefer to call an arrow a scud.
I shoot an Excalibur....................🐌

Really I think a recurve can benefit from leaning toward a heavier arrow at or above 400 grains.

Interesting thread here for sure.

 

You could spend all night debating this subject but the end result boils down to one thing bow......efficiency.

So in the end I tell people they need a real weight hunting arrow.
400 to 480 grains covers all bows made right now i.m.o. no reason for lighter or heavier. Something lacking someplace
if your out side this parameter or maybe an extrema condition exist like noted below.

Need to kill water buffalo............
Bow is really not tunable.
I shoot 3" cut fixxed head.
I prefer to call an arrow a scud.
I shoot an Excalibur....................🐌

Really I think a recurve can benefit from leaning toward a heavier arrow at or above 400 grains.

Interesting thread here for sure.

youd think think theyd have it just about figured after 40 years of crossbow building

SpaceX raptor gen 1 vs gen 3 (2019 to 2023)

 

If you increase bolt weight by 20% you do not lose 20% of the velocity. You will lose less. I have always shot heavier arrows from recurves and did the same when I got a crossbow. I am shooting a 495 grain bolt. I would go heavier but it seems that broadheads over 150 grains are hard to find. It doesn't matter if you shoot recurves, compounds, or crossbows. The rig produces more energy than can be absorbed by the arrow/bolt. That energy manifests itself as vibration. That is absorbed by the bow and produces the loud noise of crossbows.

 

Can’t dispute Duke’s input. I’m gonna try some of the steel X Mag’s next year out of my two Ravin’s but primarily to shoot a heavier arrow cuz they’re easier on the crossbows. Truth be told in terms of accuracy the 400’s perform great but other brand crossbows seemed to always require a heavier arrow to get an acceptable level of accuracy for me. I just wish Swat had a 125 grain without the collar as I struggle maintaining my arrow TIR with them. The steels look wicked and seem like they would be good medicine on big mule deer.

 

👍