Unfortunatly this sport don't have pro shooters but if you see, in target and 3D we have the WCSA international competitions with some good shooters, in teory the best ones. In fact, IBO have diferent rules and it's to american, to be worldwide just the WCSA in 3D the best shooter have a crossbow shop in Germany, Harold Nichan, I had shoot with him in the last 3D world championship and for me it's on of the guys who understand more about sporting crossbows.

http://www.aiacrossbow.com/

Other guy who just live to crossbow it's Günter Wetzler from Sweeden, it was the bronze medal in the last 2 WCh, we had is on brand (excelent tecnology) and it's the vice-president of WCSA in charge of tecnical department.

http://www.excaliburcrossbowseurope.com/administration/hauptframe.htm#Anchor-Dies-21393

In america you have a good group of shooters with great results on Target and 3D with sporting crossbow that can be contacted by "The National Crossbowmen of the USA" the afileated group of WCSA in USA.
In targetcossbow style the guy who nows more is Jonh Clark from Austrália, manufacter, the only training book about crossbow and secretary-general of WCSA, Christian Alanglou from France manufacter of the best target crossbows, and of course Brako Pelegrin from Croatia, he and his wife have the most of the records and including they have 6 olimpic gold medals in rifle shooting... Ok and I've the world record on 3D shooting with target crossbow (but I'm not that good).

So, no one is pro shooter but lots of them live just for shooting, doing, thinking, righting about crossbows...

 

thats to bad, I was hoping to see what the top shooters use here in North America and why they shoot a peticular bow within the company they shoot for, guess none belong to this forum

 

I am the tournament shooter for Horton Archery, and I know that some of the other shooters from other companys are on here also. While there is no Pro class so to speak, both the IBO and ASA offer classes for crossbows. As participation is still growing, at the larger shoots most of the competitors are suported by one of the manufactures on some level. If you have anyspecific questions please ask away, I will try adn get back on here later tonight adn give you a rundown of exactly what I am shooting. We have to get ready for wresteling practice now.
Matt

 

As Matt stated, there is no "Pro" class for crossbows in ASA or IBO. None either for NFAA or NAA. ASA does have a "Manufacturers" class where some modifications are allow to the bow to "fit" the shooter.

With that said, Crossbow competition in the US is in its infancy.

I am Factory Pro Staff for Barnett currently. I compete in, or have competed in ASA, IBO, NAA and NFAA events. Depending on what venue you care to compete in, there are bows available that will accomplish the task at hand, without breaking the bank.

I used a $400 bow last year at the NAA Nationals and placed second by one point. Upset many people, especially those shooting bows costing 5 times that amount.

You can do a search in the target section here, and on the other site that has numerous crossbow shooters to read progress and results.

Again, remember crossbow in the US is still in its infancy, and until a greater number of shooters turn out for the shoots that now include them, sanctioning organizations will hold a deaf ear. JMHO

 

Thanks for the replies, I was looking for the perticulars of each of the "top shooters" equipment and why they choose the bow they shoot, as well a arrow set up etc.

The reason for this is for myself to actually see the names and scores listed someplace to check, get kinda tired of the backyard pro that shoots a few close arrows from bench spouting of about this or that but can never back it up.

Do you know the other companies top shooters from Bowtec,Darton,Parker etc, do you compare notes at different tournaments you attend?

 

Xbowron, I think you are looking for the impossable. Some of the best vertical bow archers I have ever had the pleasure of shooting with were back yard pros. Even if you had a "pro" give you a list of his pet gear doesnt mean you will shoot like a pro. Heck I got a pro series walleye tournament boat with all of the gear and I still cant catch fish. Do a little search on a fella named Justin Hush, you know the kid that trained in his backyard shooting across the yard through the garage and into the basement just to get 70 yards out of his back yard. He took the gold for The U.S. shooting a Hoyt, why a Hoyt? Well read up and you will see they were the first to give him free gear. I know a young fella that more so than not shoots a 300 indoor 20 yard using a old jennings bow, I will have to ask him why he shoots the old jennings and why not a pro level bow. I would not discount the backyard "pro" as that is were it all starts. Good luck in your search for pro level information that is backed up. :thumbsu:

 

My reason for looking for verfiable results I think are pretty simple because they are verifiable, somebody thats somebody says is a great shot is fine and all but not verifiable with real tournament results. I also understand the sponsored shooter thing aswell this is why I asked for a reson for the bow choice withing the company they shoot for not why they shoot for the company itself" i am sure the answer would be the same"

as for Justin well I did look him up and he did shoot in his backyard but trained with coaches and at a training center in California mostly and has verifiable results to look at, not looking to start any fights just looking for comparisons from proven shooters I can see results for from tournaments.

So far we have two that responded I had hoped there would be more but this is a good start

My questions would be

Bow choice within the company you shoot for, target-Hunting are they a different bow

arrow choice- thoughts on FOC from bow to bow, weeding out flyers, if the company has a selection why the ones you choose

shooting set up- do you set it up off a bench then shoot it standing in tournaments or set it up as you would shoot it

techiques for shooting better standing, ie breathing, stance etc

trigger- slap or squeeze or something else

thanks

 

tryinhardarcher and vaguru:
You are shooting to the companys in US and I don't you shoot in the international events from WCSA? I never understand why the Americans don't like to shoot on the World Champs and why the companies don't send no one to the international events (except Excalibur and TenPoint o relly on the Germans and Austrian competitiors.
PS - Other thing... I'm shooting with Hawke scopes too, with the Endurance models.

 

tryinhardarcher and vaguru:
You are shooting to the companys in US and I don't you shoot in the international events from WCSA? I never understand why the Americans don't like to shoot on the World Champs and why the companies don't send no one to the international events (except Excalibur and TenPoint o relly on the Germans and Austrian competitiors.
PS - Other thing... I'm shooting with Hawke scopes too, with the Endurance models.

I am what I consider new to the crossbow scene. While I have shot verticals for years I am only in my second season shooting strictly crossbows. I never did much of the "dot" type events with the verticals, but I wouldnt be against trying anything new. To be honest I dont know anything about the WCSA, it sure sounds like something I need to persue.
With the entire competiton thing being new to the states, the manufactures are just starting to get involved. I cant speak for the other companys, but Horton seems very open and interested in getting more involved.
Matt

 

If you want to see who shoots the IBO go to IBO.net and go to results for Xbow.It will give you the names and where they are from plus their scores.I have shot the IBO since 2002 and met some fantastic people in all classes.

 

If you want to see who shoots the IBO go to IBO.net and go to results for Xbow.It will give you the names and where they are from plus their scores.I have shot the IBO since 2002 and met some fantastic people in all classes.

That is the reason why I am asking for more detailed information on their set ups from each companies shooters. We have names and results but don't know any of them or even if the post here

So far we have

Barnett- Vaguru
Horton- tryinhardarcher
Excal- Kbarr1
Parker-?
Bowtec-?
Ten Point-?
PSE-?
other?

I think it would be great to have these shooters post up their stats and equipment and maybe follow up on some of the questions I posted earlier

I just found out an hr ago that Ontario Canada has been shooting xbows in tournaments since the late 70's they seem to ahead of the curve a bit but not to many seem to venture down here to the IBO/ASA tournys

 

Hi xbowRon,My Excal shoots a Goldtip 20"arrow with 3" Bohning Xvanes off a 40 strand Boo custom string with a 6X leupold on top.This has been a great tournament setup for me in the United States and Canada.

 

tryinhardarcher and vaguru:
You are shooting to the companys in US and I don't you shoot in the international events from WCSA? I never understand why the Americans don't like to shoot on the World Champs and why the companies don't send no one to the international events (except Excalibur and TenPoint o relly on the Germans and Austrian competitiors.
PS - Other thing... I'm shooting with Hawke scopes too, with the Endurance models.

The main reason is equipment. The rules for WCSA are limited in what can be used. Most American companies don't make anything that is legal for the competiton. I know Barnett did make the Spirit years ago, but no longer does. They currently have nothing WCSA legal. I'm more of a spot shooter than a guess your best 3D shooter, but that is all we have here.

I did shoot the NAA Nationals, and the NFAA Nationals with a WCSA legal bow last indoor season. I can no longer use that bow as it is not in agreement with my contract obligations. So....I was not able to compete with the crossbow indoors this season.

There are other reasons as well. Here we are allowed to own, shoot and compete with firearms. Many choose that venue over archery/crossbow. Another reason is that until recently, crossbows were a stepchild of the archery industry as few states allowed their use for hunting. Now with a push to have crossbows legalized as a hunting tool, maybe more will experience the thrill. If the sales numbers are there, the companies will build whatever is neccessary.

I had to give up archery competition 7 years ago due to physical problems. Since I was going to sit out this indoor season with no indoor crossbow, I decided to try the vertical bow again. Fortunately, I have been able to handle re entry into the vertical bow world without hurting myself, or too much pain. Apparently I have healed some in the past 7 years. I have been shooting the vertical again for about 7 weeks now, and am almost back where I was score wise indoors, 300-56X for 5 spot, and 430 FITA currently. I still have some "tuning" to do to the indoor vertical as it is not totally comfortable to shoot. The draw length is just a bit short. I'll get that corrected shortly as the new cam just arrived. A bit late for this season, but I'll have it ready for next year.

I hope this answers your questions.

 

xbowRon,

My equipment list/setups

IBO

Barnett Buck Commander
Factory string and cables (First String)
20" GT LaserII Pros 452 gr total
Blazer X2 vanes
125 gr GT EZ pull point w/25 gr insert weight
HHA Optimizer
Hawke 3-9X40 AO Crossbow scope w/turrets set at 8X (used to be max allowed)
Sight/bow level

ASA

Barnett Penetrator
20" GT LaserII Pros 448 gr total
Factory string and cables (First String)
Blazer vanes
125 gr GT EZ pull point w/20 gr insert weight
HHA Optimizer
Hawke 3-9X40 AO Crossbow scope w/turrets set at 6X (max allowed)
Sight/bow level

Hope this helps

 

My friend, your are missjudging WCSA, they are 3 types of xbow allowded: medieval, target and sport. You are just considering the target xbows. That, you are right the actual brands don't have bows that can be good to compete. We have the Sport crossbow it's totally open in strengt, speed, scopes, etc... So, all the equipment that the brands do are totally legal and can compete.
Unfortunatly that missjudging are common because in old times the only international federation IAU just consider valid the Target crossbows, they continuing like that, don't regarding the evolution of the sport and specially the hunting crossbows, that's because they are just a group of old guys from France, Germany and Swiss that manufacter some very expensive bows and they all come from rifle shooting.

In thermes of type of shooting comparing to IBO, the distances and sizes of spots are smaller on WCSA. In fact, seeing the equipment that you use are totally inferior to the average top shoothers competing on WCSA, especially the scope, because to have enough acuracy on a 60cm Fita style target the best is to have at least a zoom of 20x and the same on 3D, the normal scopes are the ones that are used on Field Target (rifle competition).

 

My friend, your are missjudging WCSA, they are 3 types of xbow allowded: medieval, target and sport. You are just considering the target xbows. That, you are right the actual brands don't have bows that can be good to compete. We have the Sport crossbow it's totally open in strengt, speed, scopes, etc... So, all the equipment that the brands do are totally legal and can compete.
Unfortunatly that missjudging are common because in old times the only international federation IAU just consider valid the Target crossbows, they continuing like that, don't regarding the evolution of the sport and specially the hunting crossbows, that's because they are just a group of old guys from France, Germany and Swiss that manufacter some very expensive bows and they all come from rifle shooting.

In thermes of type of shooting comparing to IBO, the distances and sizes of spots are smaller on WCSA. In fact, seeing the equipment that you use are totally inferior to the average top shoothers competing on WCSA, especially the scope, because to have enough acuracy on a 60cm Fita style target the best is to have at least a zoom of 20x and the same on 3D, the normal scopes are the ones that are used on Field Target (rifle competition).

Inferior equipment, wow thats a mouthfull from an organisation not alot of people even know exist, I read up on the rules and reg for the sport xbow, do they shoot everything freestanding or do they/can they brace themselves, there are several pics of guys shooting off the ground with bi pods and leaning on branches, is this normal, as far as I know everything in ASA/IBO is shot freestanding with no braceing of anykind, to shoot a 20X scope freestanding would be interesting

 

We shoot freestanding, in WCSA rules we are not alloweded to shoot with any kind of suport, even with a bigger belt or a rifleshooting suport clothes. Wen I say inferior or superior equipment I was talking in scopes, not crossbows, (sorry bad english). I shoot with 20x in freestanding, not a problem, of course it depend of the size of the front lens...

Unfortunatly on this sport, we don't have much shooters and in the same time we have 2 international federations (IAU and WCSA) and some small regional and national associations without conections to themselfs, or, by «political interess» they don't talk in bealf of the x-bow sport.

I see that Sommers open a topic here about WCSA, I will try to post some pictures from recent championships.
The major point is, all of we love this sport, unregarding to what association, group, country we live. So, we must roing to the same side to increse the number of shooters and save the sport from some people who are trying to forbide it.

 

Miguel,

Scope magnification is limited by the rules here. Until last season, we were not allowed to use more than 8X in IBO (now any power) and 6X in ASA. We have to live within the rules. As far as the other types, medieval and sport bow, there is no place to shoot them here that I know of, only the target venue.

Now Ron, I shot High Power and Small Bore Rifle Silhouette for years in the past. High Power shoots to 500 m and Small Bore to 100 m. All the top shooters used 24X to 36X power scpoes. Some even used 40X or more (one I know for fact used 72X), and yes, this was shot standing without support or shooting coats, slings, hooked butts, etc. It CAN be accomplished with determination. Top shooters can regularly shoot sub MOA groups at 500 m.

Just something to ponder.

 

Yes it's incredible wath some fieldtarget guys can shoot.
Shooting medieval or Target crossbows are a pleasure, not good to hunt but can be a perfect... It's strange do describe but go to the field with a xbow with less than 220fps, totally tune to you and with a lots of pieces donne in home to gain that extra points.... pure love...
In Portugal qe shoot in the same competitions that bows in IFAA style rules, so we are unfortunatly above 300fps to be able to compete... unfortunatly I can't use my Predator on nationals and I shoot with QUAD. Until 3 years ago we have a rule that limited the zoom until 6x too, the records tumble wen they thake out that rule.
Now in 3D of WCSA they create a stupid rule agaist paralax ajustmment, in a good scope that reduce the use of presision riflescopes, or, like I use on my Hawke Endurance, using just 20x or less and always on the infinity of ajustment. But unfortunatly on competitions are always someone that try to cheat or contour the rulesm in that case we as judges on the last WC discover that some shooter are trying to use range finder scopes...



P.S. - Vanguru, sorry if I use a not correct expresion wen I says that your equipment are inferior... it as not what I intend to say.

 

Never shot anything higher than a 3x scope so would like to try it for sure, does anyone know if there are other "staff shooters" on this board, would like to hear more from them. There doesn't sem to any continuity between organisations as of yet, but for now I am concearned with IBO/ASA since I have not the time nor finances to travel to an international event.

So far all three shooter use GT arrows,

Vaguru, you posted you use different bows for ibo and asa your reason? you use the HHA and higher power scope, do you judge distance for each or gap with the different scope lines?

can someone explain the ibo equipment rules, they seem kind of goofy with arrow weight and speed.

 

Ron,

Reason for different bows for ASA and IBO, rules. ASA has 2 classes, check web site. I shoot the Manufacturers Class, speed limit 330 +3%. IBO has 1 class, with break down according to bow speed for arrow weight. In IBO I'm considerably over 325 fps, so I have to shoot a 450gr minimum arrow weight.

As my weakness is judging yardage, in IBO I shoot the fastest arrow I can within the rules. IBO has become a "speed" equipment race if your judging is as marginal as mine.

My scopes are a Duplex design, only one crosshair. I dial the HHA Optimizer for the distance, known or judged, hold dead on what I want to hit and shoot.

I suggest you go to both the IBO site, ibo.net, and the ASA site, asaarchery.com, for the rules so as to get them first hand. The rules for IBO, arrow weight, are as you stated, "goofy". We, the shooters, have tried to get them to change the arrow weight rule now for 2 years without success. Again, go to the sites and read them first hand.

Let me know if I can be of any further help.

 

Ron,

Reason for different bows for ASA and IBO, rules. ASA has 2 classes, check web site. I shoot the Manufacturers Class, speed limit 330 +3%. IBO has 1 class, with break down according to bow speed for arrow weight. In IBO I'm considerably over 325 fps, so I have to shoot a 450gr minimum arrow weight.

As my weakness is judging yardage, in IBO I shoot the fastest arrow I can within the rules. IBO has become a "speed" equipment race if your judging is as marginal as mine.

My scopes are a Duplex design, only one crosshair. I dial the HHA Optimizer for the distance, known or judged, hold dead on what I want to hit and shoot.

I suggest you go to both the IBO site, ibo.net, and the ASA site, asaarchery.com, for the rules so as to get them first hand. The rules for IBO, arrow weight, are as you stated, "goofy". We, the shooters, have tried to get them to change the arrow weight rule now for 2 years without success. Again, go to the sites and read them first hand.

Let me know if I can be of any further help.

Im sorry for my lack of input here guys, we have been on the road again at another outdoor show. I will join back in tom. and list some specifics. I do have to say, it is great to see the interest in all of this. Even with the difference in styles and equipment this is what we need to grow our sport here in the states.
Matt

 

To be most easy to judge the distance the best type of scope are the mildot, because you can use the mildot spaces to help you judge the distances, you just need to think and test on the practice area, for exemple, with the class 2 target, you know the interval of distances that we can be placed and test in how many mills the center fit on each distance.
Read this wen it's better explain how you can extimate your distances:

http://leapers.com/prod_detail.php?mitem=Optics&itemno=SCP3-U312AOIEW

 

Miquel,

That is fine and dandy for over there, but is illegal in US shoots, and would be real hard to do and get your shot off in 2 minutes!

 

We have 2 minutes to do the 2 shots including the time for going to the shooting post and return to safe area.
It's not as dificult as the site says, in fact, that's just the cientific explanation.
I just try to imagine a well know shape, in my case the FITA triple face target, I think in that size on the target, for exemple the size of the Bear head, the size of the kiling zone of group 2, etc. I have mesure in my pratice area the FITA triple in each 5 meters, for exemple, in 30meters are in 6 mills, 35, 5,5 mills, 50 meters 2 mills. It's not very acurate but it helps judging the distances, and it's not ilegal to use the scope to help decide de distances... I know that most of the shooters who use the «traditional» crossbow scopes use the image of the target buttress in the dimension between the lines of the map, so... it's the same thing but more accurate (or Dandy... lol).
That's always the same, if all the shooters are using some equipment, if you are using something simple you lost point's to them... so...

I don't have problems in mesure distances, in fact, during all my experience as bow shooter I allways had big results in 3D, I'd been the junior european champion in recurve bow IFAA style... and my world title and record are donne with the target crossbow just with 210fps and a pin sight (like you know from the rules of target style)... just fail 2 shoots on 3 day event...