You will find that not much of anything effects an arrows accuracy under 50 yds. Small differences of 20 to 30 fps don't affect trajectory that much, up to 40 almost nothing. I'm not surprised of your findings.

 

i would like to see that again with 440 f.p,s bow.................

Those arrows look nearly identical to each other. I did actually see a difference using a Arizona EZ fletcher a while back but it put nearly a boat propeller helical on the arrow. That was off a Scorpyd Orion Extream back then at I think 438 f.p.s. at 50 yards.

Interesting test and valuable information too. This also tells me that almost any of those vanes would work.

Thanks for the post up.

 

Here’s a better look at the vanes. The orange is right helical you can see the twist the helical clamp puts on the vane. When using a crossbow your limited to how much twist or offset you can use. Or at least as much as I care to use. Imo you need to miss the retaining arm and not fight the rail grove all the way down the rail. That’s about as much as I feel comfortable with.

The yellow is the same slight offset as the hellfire vanes. Straight clamp was used so no twist the helical clamp impaired to the vane. Thus less spin the hellfire has that kicker it’s my understanding it spins faster than a helical. For sure faster than any of those.

If you have a bow like I do where you can watch the arrow fly to the target. You will notice the yellow fletched arrow the nock will wonder all the way to the target. It shoots good and once sighted in it will shoot a good group. But it’s not stable in flight.

The helical will wonder less the more helical the less it will wonder. But here like I said your restrained from using to much helical. Or hope for the best and let the vanes encounter interference as it slides down the rail or pass through a rest.

The reason I started using the QS years ago wondering and trying this and that vane but always coming back. You get all the benefits of a lot of helical and keep the benefits of a straight fletched vane because it is.

Imo your looking for what I call a still nock. In other words when my arrows fly to the target. The nock is still in the air just like you laid on a table and got back and looked at it. It’s still . This leads to better penetration because it’s going in a deer straight. Also better broadhead flight. And as I showed inside most hunting ranges there’s no difference in poi to worry about.

Im not trying to persuade one way or the other . Just bored lol and just passing along how and why I do what I do.

 

interesting for sure. That orange one does have as much helical as i would ever use too.

So you like those hell fire vanes....? I really like the older spinwings allot but they never seem to make more then a season before they come off or dry up and crack. Even the white ones, it just took a little longer for those.

 

So far after probably 4 or 5 years pretty much since they came out that i knew of them anyway. Well i called NAP and ask if i could buy some before they were available. I have not had one tear up rot or fall off. I did take a short cut and didn't use primer and i had a few come off. But other than that zero problems. I even left one fletched outside for a year rain snow you name it. I still shoot it .

The Vantech are great vanes shoot super good. But they will wrinkle if they get shot into the blob of a field tip target.

The Hellfires won't. I just went out and pushed one in the blob backwards then turned it several times to really stress the vanes.

I’ll leave it in there for a few hours and post a pic of the vanes. I took some witnesses with me.

There enjoying some outside time today. I give them about 4 hours a day to explore and learn.

 

Interesting. I spent all morning shooting four different but identical spinal tap arrows. Two each arizona fletched predator hard helicals vs. two each bitzenburger fletched hellfire quickspins.
I compared each to field point impact to VPA bradhead impact. Thus indicating which set of fletching corrected the big broadhead to the field point POI the closest.
It was a very close competition but I would have to give the nod to the helicals. Having said that, I will go with the quickspins for two reasons. I don't shoot big broadheads anymore, I shoot mechanicals. Number 2, I like the clearance afforded by the QS. I have no doubt the QS will correct the mechanical BH's to the same degree as the helicals. Why waste any unnecessary energy that I don't need even if it is a small amount and on the flip side why not use a little energy that you do need to insure good arrow flight. BTW I did the same experiment years ago, different arrows, different bow, same result.

Nice pups.

 

Heres a test for you being you already have em fletched up. Does the strong helical fletched arrow spin enough to bend and or break broadhead blades off on impact?

When I was using the Aerovane 2's, I was using 2 blade Rage extremes. Every arrow recovery at least one blade was broken off. I havent used the AV'2's in a while and the thought just came to mind.

 

Heres a test for you being you already have em fletched up. Does the strong helical fletched arrow spin enough to bend and or break broadhead blades off on impact?

When I was using the Aerovane 2's, I was using 2 blade Rage extremes. Every arrow recovery at least one blade was broken off. I havent used the AV'2's in a while and the thought just came to mind.

Wow Yelpy, first I have never heard of such a thing, never even considered it. It would take a massive amount of rotational energy to bend a VPA blade. Both deer and the blob target have never done that. The last 10 years or so I have been using swhackers. I have bent but never broken any blades with deer. In the blob I have never even bent a blade but seldom have I shot a "live round" most always shoot the practice head and again no bh damage after countless shots on same head. I do shoot arrows with the helicals often enough to know. As for the swhackers and deer I just always assumed the blade bending was from others sources not the rotation of the arrow but.....IDK you might be on to something.

 

Thinking a little further on this I believe once the swhacker enters the deer and opens up that rotation has stopped thru the winglets having to cut into the hide. I would have to say blade bending is the result of other factors???

 

The swhacker has a left bevel grind on the winglets. That should start to arrest the right helical. I agree the blades should dampen the rotation then arrest it.

From what I have noticed if the broadhead doesn’t promote the spin it will deaden it then stop it. I don’t think there’s a stop sign on the deer. I offer as proof if you shoot left helical it will loosen your field tips and broadheads. This is a well known fact so if it stoped dead this wouldn’t happen.

It’s now been 8 hours all I did was pull the vanes out and take a pic of each vane as straight on as I could.

By the time I walked back to the kennel checked in the puppies that was out about 10 hours. They were wore out lol and sound asleep. Then on to the house fooling with the vanes as I walked they were all straight other than wear this arrow has been shot a lot. It looked just fine.

 

great looking pups.

 

Respectfully I disagree with all of the above. The swhacker is rt handed, in flys complimentary with rt wing or rt spin vanes. Left hand spin arrows actually proves that field points and broadheads rotation stops upon impact. That is why the arrows unscrews itself from the broadhead. Broadhead stops, arrows continues in a left hand fashion.

Yeah those Nap vanes are durable. Nice test.

 

sorry my friend but Swhacker opening tabs are most definitely left bevel sharpened. Or at least mine are. Here is a well know left bevel sharpened broadhead along side a swhacker 150 gr broadhead.

you can see the left side blade is not sharpened while the right side blade is. This makes it a single bevel left wing grind. To assist the traditional left bevel head on the left you must use left wing feathers or left helical.

A quick search I found a VPA add for there single bevel offering.

The left bevel of the swhacker opening tabs will try and stop or at least slow the rotation down. Before the double bevel of the main blades open. Unless your using left helical. Then it will reinforce the left bevel’s tendency to rotate once it’s in the deer.

This has nothing to do with flight.

Shooting a left wing or left helical vane must be rotating at least some to loosen the field tip. It is true in a target the point is arrested but the rotation of the shaft must still turn for it to loosen. I don’t think there’s a stop sign on a deer anywhere near likes on a target. And rotation when a vane spins so fast and is right helical that tightness the tip. Hits a deer that energy has to go somewhere it has to try and rotate the tip or broadhead because at that time it’s locked it’s self to the shaft.

But to see true broadhead rotation you need a single bevel sharpened head that matches the helical used.

 

sorry my friend but Swhacker opening tabs are most definitely left bevel sharpened. Or at least mine are. Here is a well know left bevel sharpened broadhead along side a swhacker 150 gr broadhead.
View attachment 256062
you can see the left side blade is not sharpened while the right side blade is. This makes it a single bevel left wing grind. To assist the traditional left bevel head on the left you must use left wing feathers or left helical.

A quick search I found a VPA add for there single bevel offering.
View attachment 256063
The left bevel of the swhacker opening tabs will try and stop or at least slow the rotation down. Before the double bevel of the main blades open. Unless your using left helical. Then it will reinforce the left bevel’s tendency to rotate once it’s in the deer.

This has nothing to do with flight.

Shooting a left wing or left helical vane must be rotating at least some to loosen the field tip. It is true in a target the point is arrested but the rotation of the shaft must still turn for it to loosen. I don’t think there’s a stop sign on a deer anywhere near likes on a target. And rotation when a vane spins so fast and is right helical that tightness the tip. Hits a deer that energy has to go somewhere it has to try and rotate the tip or broadhead because at that time it’s locked it’s self to the shaft.

But to see true broadhead rotation you need a single bevel sharpened head that matches the helical used.

Of course I could be wrong but, the way my simple mind sees it, the bevel in both example pictures are indeed on the right side. Both will be influence to rotate to the right as they move forward encountering resistance. Is their something I am missing here? (wouldn't be the first time, lol)

 

Stick your hand out the window of your car like a wing , Point it down like the left bevel in your picture....
The bevel is on the left , But it spins to the Right.......

 

I fletch 1 degree left. Recently did a BH test with 6 different BH at 30 yards on a blackout BH target. Every single head punched thru the back of target. None were loose when I unscrewed them to make pulling arrow out of target easier.

 

Also my heat vanes came out unwrinkled.

 

IIRC, last year/summer I went down this rabbit hole. after watching B.Miller slow mo archer's paradox video/post. Arrow stabilization got my attention viewing the arrow rotation left. My crossbow launches arrow rotation left so I switch my arrow builds with 1° left offset. Not sure it makes a huge different but like the idea everything is working in sync. My vane choice are 2.25" Tac Vanes. Also, 2" Bohning Heat vanes are tough as nails. Both are extremely durable.

Great post to revisit. Thanks for sharing.

 

After searching off and on today there’s 2 sides to the coin when it comes to single bevel. I followed Dr Ashby and used the single bevel Grizzly left bevel for years. It’s not just bone busting it’s also to get a star effect where the spinning head pulls twists and cuts well outside of the cutting diameter.

Let me try best as I understand lol. How you tell if it’s a right or left bevel. And how confusing it is. I’ll use the old grizzly you can see it better.

Your supposed to point the broadhead away from you and the side the bevel is on is the grind it is

Ok here we go

As you can see the bevel is on the right so it’s a right bevel right. Well not so fast.

If I hold it differently rotating it counterclockwise now the grind or bevel is on the left.

Most people thing the bevel influences the rotation. But in fact it’s more of a relief. The UN sharpened side has more leverage and will spin the broadhead ccw.

Feel like you in Alice in wonderland yet lol.

 

My interpretation ... of that broadhead photo? "You must have a thousand bucks in old broadheads in that tray!"

 

Maybe they should specify on the package what direction the BH wants to spin naturally.

 

The broadhead I posted above is 200% sure a left bevel left wing left helical broadhead. If someone says it’s not there wrong or Dr Ashby was wrong.

 

So are the Swhackers left spin? I just fletched a few arrows same as TomOnTheRun and Huntersthompson left offset. My hunting BH are Swhackers.

 

your fine

 

Definitely not trying to be argumentative on this topic, but wanted to share my research and perspective on this.

Even though this thread was started about the vane spin, it has kinda morphed into the direction of identifying a right or left bevel broadhead and which direction it spins. The right-left direction can be a confusing topic due to conflicting information, which sometimes even I go down the wrong rabbit-hole. So not having any experience with any single-beveled broadheads per se, I offer these bits of conflicting information along with a video demonstration, which in my mind offers an observable truth.

From Dr. Ashby's website FAQ section (FAQ — Ashby Bowhunting Foundation )

This would align with what Joe is saying when you look at a broadhead edge-on and see the left side, or right side, of the blade sharpened.



But, then you have a broadhead manufacturer, Iron Will Outfitters, describing how to identify the right-left bevel and it's different from the Ashby FAQ answer. (full video here:

)

So I began looking for a good video to demonstrate the direction that a broadhead spins as it enters a medium from the influences of it's beveled surface. I'm sure there are many, but I found this example video. The single-beveled broadhead he uses is what most would call left-bevel.

And here's the video of the penetration:

✂️ Left Bevel Spins To The Left

30 seconds · Clipped by SamT · Original video "Why Single Bevel Broadheads #1" by Ashby Bowhunting Foundation

youtube.com

(full video here:

)

What this video shows is that the beveled side pushes against the flat side, forcing the flat side to twist into the medium, which causes a CCW rotation and the "S" cut and bone splitting properties characteristic to single-beveled broadheads.

Based on this limited information, I'd have to agree with the Iron Will video.

 

Assuming mechs are non binary.....

 

The Muzzy HB-Ti Hybrid was a little bit of both!

Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk

 

rt2bowhunter, you said "you skipped primer and had a few come off", what primer did you use?

 

I don't think it matters I have TAC vanes primer pin i'm using now.

 

First Tac vanes I put on I took out to test on the target. Flew great. Went to pull arrows and all 3 vanes laying on the ground. My heat vanes come preprimed and did not know I needed primer. Used carburetor cleaner as primer and problem solved.

 

what sucks about those vanes is they seem to only sell them in a mutli color pack........REALLY

I like all white only on an arrow incase i need to knock tune.

 

Same here.

 

Yeah i agree I wish you could buy 100 packs of the same color. A man might call them and ask.

 

Tac Vanes? I buy hens, Qty 100 same color in a package. Cock's, Qty 36 same color.

 

I only buy heat vanes in white 100 packs. Primer not needed.

 

I guess I should have quoted No1 . I was responding to his post about hellfire vanes only selling in packs with a off color cock vane.

I also fletch all 3 vanes the same color just incase I need to nock tune. I just use the same color vanes for all 3.

The cock vane gets a dot once it’s nocked tuned then a 1 once it’s proven to be extremely accurate with a broadhead. Some indexed and nocked tuned don’t make the grade it’s very rare. But to get the 1 means it’s proven and a hunter.
Now if I have to refletch for some reason and it’s a 1 I’ll fletch with a white cock vane and what ever color hens. I don’t get hung up on colors .

Edit
If anyone decides to try these vanes. It’s best to have a clamp that is relieved so as not to influence the wing or what I call the kicker on the vane. You can modify a Blitz clamp and it will work fine. I use the firenock jig and clamp.

Hope this clears my post up .

 

Where would you modify a Bitz clamp?

 

Hometead, they only come in right spin. Won’t work if your fletching left but this gives me an idea to modify a heat vane with a left kicker.