[Wolverinegs]

Decoking would be great

 

[Cronos]

Silent, possibly decocking capable.... Not sure I like the narrow sled. Looks like the CP400 style.

View attachment 289927

I don't see why the CD2S should not have a decocking feature.
The "old" CD1 already has silent operation and can be used for decocking as well.
That's what the small switch at the backside of the crank is for. Press it upwards and the break gets released to decock the bow.

 

[Wolverinegs]

I don't see why the CD2S should not have a decocking feature.
The "old" CD1 already has silent operation and can be used for decocking as well.
That's what the small switch at the backside of the crank is for. Press it upwards and the break gets released to decock the bow.

That is true for killer instinct CCD too, with the back switch. It is like you pull the string half way you can stop there for a rest.

 

[TX_RDXguy]

I don't see why the CD2S should not have a decocking feature.
The "old" CD1 already has silent operation and can be used for decocking as well.
That's what the small switch at the backside of the crank is for. Press it upwards and the break gets released to decock the bow.

De-cocking in the context of safe-decocking. None of the existing CP xbows are intended to be decocked as a normal method of letting the bow down. The use of the Cocking Preparation switch, the trigger and the cranks release on a cocked bow to let it down is the result of creative application. I’m hoping they have a full break system built which I believe is pretty optimistic.

 

[Cronos]

De-cocking in the context of safe-decocking.

True, you can't let go of the handle while decocking.
As long as you pay attention to what you're doing I don't find it unsafe... but yes, it is not what most ppl would consider safe decocking.
There is no active clutch or break when decocking.

 

[Wolverinegs]

I tested the bow again for speed, by shooting the same 300gr bolt combined with tips with weight ranging from 100gr to 350gr.

From the results I felt the sweet spot for the speed energy trade off is 450 - 475gr, consistent with the recommendations from other members

 

[Iron Duke]

I tested the bow again for speed, by shooting the same 300gr bolt combined with tips with weight ranging from 100gr to 350gr.

From the results I felt the sweet spot for the speed energy trade off is 450 - 475gr, consistent with the recommendations from other members

View attachment 290260

I'd like to see ... the corresponding change in trajectory alongside those values. As for the "Speed/Energy tradeoff ... totally irrelevant for killing deer and hogs. 154ke vs 142ke is meaningless when 25ke is enough to kill a deer. It's like saying which bulldozer is better for removing snow from your sidewalk. 142ke is ludicrous overkill to begin with, so trajectory becomes more of an asset than additional energy.

 

[Wolverinegs]

I'd like to see ... the corresponding change in trajectory alongside those values. As for the "Speed/Energy tradeoff ... totally irrelevant for killing deer and hogs. 154ke vs 142ke is meaningless when 25ke is enough to kill a deer. It's like saying which bulldozer is better for removing snow from your sidewalk. 142ke is ludicrous overkill to begin with, so trajectory becomes more of an asset than additional energy.

That depends on distance. As for deer killing usually within 50 yards, lower weight high speed will have flatter trajectory.

I agree on the energy needed to kill is no issue. However, the speed energy trade off is relevant for hunting from two perspectives, one is the more energy you have in the arrow, the less energy absorbed by limbs and strings reducing the limb and string failures and reduce noises and vibrations. The other is the heavier weight will result in more wind resistance and higher ballistic coefficients, improving accuracy especially in medium and long distance. That is why I try to use a weight and speed combination that leaves at the higher speed but in an area close to plateau, my "sweet spot".

Again, this could differ from people to people. Some argue the heavier ones have better penetration. However, when I did testing with various weight and three different bows, I did not find a difference in penetrations. So I would use lower weight and higher speeds

 

[Iron Duke]

That depends on distance. As for deer killing usually within 50 yards, lower weight high speed will have flatter trajectory.

I agree on the energy needed to kill is no issue. However, the speed energy trade off is relevant for hunting from two perspectives, one is the more energy you have in the arrow, the less energy absorbed by limbs and strings reducing the limb and string failures and reduce noises and vibrations. The other is the heavier weight will result in more wind resistance and higher ballistic coefficients, improving accuracy especially in medium and long distance. That is why I try to use a weight and speed combination that leaves at the higher speed but in an area close to plateau, my "sweet spot".

Again, this could differ from people to people. Some argue the heavier ones have better penetration. However, when I did testing with various weight and three different bows, I did not find a difference in penetrations. So I would use lower weight and higher speeds

A 10mph ... crosswind moves my 400gr/523fps arrow ½" at 50 yards, only 1½" at 100 yards! Interesting enough, the same ballistic table shows a 500gr arrow drops 7" more at 100 yards, but actually drifts very slightly more at 50 & 100 yards. There's not much difference in flight time either. (.58sec vs .62sec) Now unless the ballistic coefficient is insanely different between the same make & model 400gr & 500gr arrows, it basically, boils down to the only significant difference between my crossbow shooting 400gr and 500gr arrows is trajectory. I realize that collecting empirical data is necessary for confirming (or disproving) the BC calculator data. Hence my saying I'd like to see the arrow drop vs weight that accompanies your data collection. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator

 

[Wolverinegs]

I use Chairgun from Hawke but assume it is the same as the website you provided.

I will use BC=0.058 as this is how Hawke crossbow scopes are calibrated. But obviously heavier arrows will have higher BC, that is why those speed rings on crossbow scopes do not work for every arrow, especially heavier arrows. I never used speed rings myself but this can be reasoned.

Arrow speed will have a lot impact, for speeds 300, 400, and 500fps, the wind drift at 50 and 100 yards, with cross wind at 10mph, are:

----------------300fps-----400fps----500fps
50 yards.-------5.0---------3.6--------2.8
100 yards.------21.1---------15.0------11.5

So for the same arrow, faster speeds will buckle the wind better because of shortened travel time. So all three speeds kill deers but faster gives you better chance to hit the target in the adverse environment.

Now for the same bow with lighter vs heavier weight, one has to know the BC for the different situations. If for 400gr arrow BC=0.058, then for 600gr, an increase of 50%, I will assume the BC will also increase by 50%, to 0.087. Using my Wrath 430 observed speed, 400fps for 400gr, 336fps for 600gr. Then


----------------336fps------400fps.
50 yards-------2.9----------3.6
100 yards------12.0---------15.0.

So we see some improvements in heavier arrows but not much. The gains are negated by the list speed.

I agree this needs field testing. But I do think leaning to faster speeds helps with accuracy, at least not much harm. I will shoot arrows slightly heavier mainly to protect limbs but will not go overboard doing that.

 

[Wolverinegs]

I am thinking making custom arrows for Swat X1 and Wrath 430, and trying to figure out the minimum set back on fletching.

I got info from older threads by @OLDFLYER that Swat X1 only needs 1/2 inch set back, despite the KI arrows comes with set back 1 3/8 inches.

I could not get the same info for the Wrath 430. The center point arrows have a set back of 1 1/4 inches. Wonder how far can I push back on that. Is there a way that I measure it? I understand the concern it not to interfere with the trigger mechanism

 

[Huntersthompson]

The first year base Wrath had a run of bows that were prone to limb separation. I had one and know several guys that did as well. We all got new risers that solved that issue. not aware of any of the 430Xs having limb issues. As with any xbow, limb failure can happen.

I’d agree with the guys commenting on string failure. Probably a dry fire due to nock alignment.

I did just experience a Bear limb failure from a guy shooting 600 gn arrows. 3 hours into a hog hunt we hear a sharp CRACK! Which got our attention. He was hoping those heavier arrows would help reduce risk of limb failure. In this case it didn’t.

FWIW, I like Scorpion Venom products for strings, cables and the rail.
View attachment 286292

I also cut back my 20” arrows to 18.25 which works well in the Wrath.

Arrow weight in the mid 400s shoot well. I’m very accurate to 50/60 yards.

Have fun with it!

Actual size of the can...

 

[*Jay*]

I am thinking making custom arrows for Swat X1 and Wrath 430, and trying to figure out the minimum set back on fletching.

I got info from older threads by @OLDFLYER that Swat X1 only needs 1/2 inch set back, despite the KI arrows comes with set back 1 3/8 inches.

I could not get the same info for the Wrath 430. The center point arrows have a set back of 1 1/4 inches. Wonder how far can I push back on that. Is there a way that I measure it? I understand the concern it not to interfere with the trigger mechanism

Be careful with that setback on X1 arrows, lift the cheek rest and make sure the nock is fully seated. I cant recall what setback I was on but playing around with it I found I could load an arrow with the lever and have a big gap between the string and nock. It would have been able to fire like that and probably would have ruined my day.

 

[Wolverinegs]

Be careful with that setback on X1 arrows, lift the cheek rest and make sure the nock is fully seated. I cant recall what setback I was on but playing around with it I found I could load an arrow with the lever and have a big gap between the string and nock. It would have been able to fire like that and probably would have ruined my day.

Thanks for the experience, that is why I am asking here to make sure. OldFlyer even designed a plastic vane with short set back to use, and I believe he is the inventor of the enclosed barrel system that KI use. But I have never seen any one put it in use

 

[Wolverinegs]

I measured the minimum set back for vanes to clear the trigger box. For Swat X1, the distance from the valley bottom of the nock to the end of vane needs to be at least 0.75". For Wrath 430 this set back is 0.92".

 

[JOE PA]

Logic would say the farther back, the better they would steer, but not sure if anyone has done testing on that.

 

[10ring11]

I have set my goal to buy the Killer Instinct Swat X1 based on recommendations here, for the compactness, covered rail, accuracy and speed, just looking for a deal. But then today Amazon has a sale of CenterPoint Wrath 430 for $340, not as good as last year with rebate, but pretty good for a deal involves no rebate. I am not sure if this is really a wise decision, or more of a lack of resistance. What do you think? Should I keep it or return it and wait for a Swat X1 deal in the future?

Almost bought the same when midway had a similar sale earlier this year. Found a used R26 the day i was going to order it tho. The specs were definitely promising

 

[10ring11]

Almost bought the same when midway had a similar sale earlier this year. Found a used R26 the day i was going to order it tho. The specs were definitely promising

PS used a CP gladiator 405 for several seasons flawlessly and killed quite a few deer with it. The furthest 40 yds

 

[TX_RDXguy]

I'm shooting 18.25" custom arrows out of the Wrath. They were built with a 1.25" setback with 2.5" Heat vanes at 1 degree right offset. Looking back through notes on other customs I've had and liked, the 1.5" setback is also not uncommon.

This Wrath arrow setup has successfully taken deer and hogs at over 50 yards. I'd consider the same setup I'm shooting now with a 1.5-2 degree vane offset for my next arrow build.

 

[TX_RDXguy]

I just added a post in the CenterPoint section called Heavy Duty Arrows. 500 gn (almost) carbon weave ASAP shafts...